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	<title>Comments on: Story of an ex-Hizbi</title>
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		<title>By: thehizb</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/articles/story_of_an_ex-hizbi#comment-134614</link>
		<dc:creator>thehizb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To Khan:
HT does not follow the Ash&#039;ari aqeedah.  This is as clear as ice for anyone that has studied Sh. Nabhani&#039;s books or any other HT material.  Sh. Nabhani doesn&#039;t even try to hide this.  In al-Shaksiyya Islamiyya (vol. 1) he clearly states that the Ash&#039;aris/Maturidis (whom he refers to as &quot;Ahl al-Sunnah&quot; are Jabiris in their view of Qadar.  Sh. Nabhani says that there are only two views regarding qadar, the Mu&#039;tazillite view and the Jabiri view and the ahl al-Sunnah are essentially Jaabiri even though they use different words.  Sh.  Nabhani explains this and clearly sides with the Mu&#039;tazillites.  This is very clear and I&#039;m surprised you don&#039;t know this.

Another concept is of dua (supplication), where HT literature (such as Islamic Thought) claims that dua has no effect on reality, and actions must only be linked by cause and effect.  HT likens dua to any other form of worship and says it cannot have any impact on reality, it is merely done for worship or for getting close to Allah.   This is another point where all three schools of Islamic Aqeedah (Ash&#039;ari, Maturidi and Athari) have agreed upon, but HT follows the Mu&#039;tazillite view on this.  

In both these examples, the three schools of sunni aqeedah are in agreement - along with aqeedah tahawiyya - and contrary to them is Sh. Nabhani and the Mu&#039;tazillite who are in agreement - and clearly contradict aqeedah tahawiyya.  These are just two examples where the ahl al-sunnah wal jamaat have agreed, but HT (and Mu&#039;tazillite) disagree.  Please look into the importance of aqeedah tahawiyya and ponder over the clear differences in it with HT literature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Khan:
HT does not follow the Ash&#8217;ari aqeedah.  This is as clear as ice for anyone that has studied Sh. Nabhani&#8217;s books or any other HT material.  Sh. Nabhani doesn&#8217;t even try to hide this.  In al-Shaksiyya Islamiyya (vol. 1) he clearly states that the Ash&#8217;aris/Maturidis (whom he refers to as &#8220;Ahl al-Sunnah&#8221; are Jabiris in their view of Qadar.  Sh. Nabhani says that there are only two views regarding qadar, the Mu&#8217;tazillite view and the Jabiri view and the ahl al-Sunnah are essentially Jaabiri even though they use different words.  Sh.  Nabhani explains this and clearly sides with the Mu&#8217;tazillites.  This is very clear and I&#8217;m surprised you don&#8217;t know this.</p>

<p>Another concept is of dua (supplication), where HT literature (such as Islamic Thought) claims that dua has no effect on reality, and actions must only be linked by cause and effect.  HT likens dua to any other form of worship and says it cannot have any impact on reality, it is merely done for worship or for getting close to Allah.   This is another point where all three schools of Islamic Aqeedah (Ash&#8217;ari, Maturidi and Athari) have agreed upon, but HT follows the Mu&#8217;tazillite view on this.  </p>

<p>In both these examples, the three schools of sunni aqeedah are in agreement - along with aqeedah tahawiyya - and contrary to them is Sh. Nabhani and the Mu&#8217;tazillite who are in agreement - and clearly contradict aqeedah tahawiyya.  These are just two examples where the ahl al-sunnah wal jamaat have agreed, but HT (and Mu&#8217;tazillite) disagree.  Please look into the importance of aqeedah tahawiyya and ponder over the clear differences in it with HT literature.</p>
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		<title>By: Khan</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/articles/story_of_an_ex-hizbi#comment-90384</link>
		<dc:creator>Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/?page_id=1810#comment-90384</guid>
		<description>AA
Judging by the misunderstandings exhibited by both of you, it looks like your time with HT was little more than a waste of time, where you did not benefit from any of their research and solutions to the political ills facing society. They are not a school, a university, a playgroup or a support group - they are an Islamic political party and make this clear. Rather than blaming yourselves for your own shortfalls you choose to blame them, in my opinion unfairly.

As regards their intellectual positions, they adopt rationalism/ideationalism, asharite creed, shafite legal philosophy and ideological transformational politics - none of which is out of turn with classical Islamic scholarship and Islamic tradition. Much of these points are addressed at more substantive critiques undertaken by others which have been responded to more accurately than your claims (eg http://www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com/ )

Compared to the likes of Qadri whom you cite as mainsteam (since when???) who attempts like the mutazalite project before him to fuse Islam and democracy and has been refuted by a number of writers (eg http://caliphateordemocracy.blogspot.com/ ) they are much better. 

All this you appear to have missed - maybe you should revisit their publications where much of this is clarified - or read the work of the only writer who has bothered to undertake phd research on the group and have provided an unbiased summary of them - Taji Farouki.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AA
Judging by the misunderstandings exhibited by both of you, it looks like your time with HT was little more than a waste of time, where you did not benefit from any of their research and solutions to the political ills facing society. They are not a school, a university, a playgroup or a support group - they are an Islamic political party and make this clear. Rather than blaming yourselves for your own shortfalls you choose to blame them, in my opinion unfairly.</p>

<p>As regards their intellectual positions, they adopt rationalism/ideationalism, asharite creed, shafite legal philosophy and ideological transformational politics - none of which is out of turn with classical Islamic scholarship and Islamic tradition. Much of these points are addressed at more substantive critiques undertaken by others which have been responded to more accurately than your claims (eg <a href="http://www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com/">http://www.islamic-considerations.blogspot.com/</a> )</p>

<p>Compared to the likes of Qadri whom you cite as mainsteam (since when???) who attempts like the mutazalite project before him to fuse Islam and democracy and has been refuted by a number of writers (eg <a href="http://caliphateordemocracy.blogspot.com/">http://caliphateordemocracy.blogspot.com/</a> ) they are much better. </p>

<p>All this you appear to have missed - maybe you should revisit their publications where much of this is clarified - or read the work of the only writer who has bothered to undertake phd research on the group and have provided an unbiased summary of them - Taji Farouki.</p>
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		<title>By: Da Pauper</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/articles/story_of_an_ex-hizbi#comment-42338</link>
		<dc:creator>Da Pauper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/?page_id=1810#comment-42338</guid>
		<description>Jazakallah Khair for the article Abu Uwais. I too am a &#039;leftover&#039; from the hay day of HT and Muhajiroun and completely agree with what have said. 

With hindsight, their Islam is one which is very dry and bland, totally lacking any sense of spirituality or real knowledge. I remember that only &#039;knowledge&#039; that they gave was based of the &#039;culture&#039; they used to give, which was based on a few small books which you were meant to read and learn in order to become a &#039;debater&#039;!

I remember them being based out of many ISOCs across the UK, debating anyone and everyone, which initially was very attractive, but then lost is sheen as there was nothing of substance behind them. Them being oncampus eventually lead to all sorts of problems for muslims on campus, and fuelled the wahhabi call to &#039;Ahlus Sunnah&#039;, which I suppose at least was based on some knowledge, but then their calls against so called bidah and shirk after every other sentence became just as bad as it went against what the majority of muslims have believed in for 100’s of years. At the time though, they seemed right as the ‘traditionals’ were nowhere to be seen. True that there were some tablighi brothers around, but then again their passive attitude didn’t really help anyone much, especially the student Muslim trying to separate the wood from the chaff.

I remember that a senior brother in HT and then Muhajiroun, questioned the senior leadership regarding the so called ‘government in waiting’ that they claimed to have in the Middle East. He wanted to go and visit them, to which no satisfactory response was given. The only response what that these people qualified and available and were ready to take up power when ‘nusra’ was achieved!  I also found that all their talks were just repeats, being played over and over, no matter what the topic or subject of discussion.

I too saw the many burnouts of such ‘dawah’ and felt unable to reconcile the evil west image being portrayed with the very same people allowing fraud, walking around in designers and having very little knowledge of basic fiqh and about their religion in general. Islam is based on humanity and appeals to the fitrah, so such ideas just didn’t seem right from the get go, no matter how they were justified.

I think that the presence of HT (and Muhajiroun and the wahhabis) did wake up the traditional schools, which lead to somewhat of a renaissance in traditional Islamic thinking and following. I think I was one of the lucky ones that got out of the melting pot before it got too hot and started questioning just as you did, and had like minded brothers around me. This led me to develop somewhat of a balanced view and to look around to search for sunni scholars. Now almost household names amongst sunnis, names like Shaikh Yacoubi, Jifri, Nuh, Tahir Ul Qadri, etc, etc, were almost like gems back then! 

As you said, one thing they did do was so raise a level of awareness about Islam in the minds of the youth, which was a good thing, and for that I am grateful, but their work did do a lot of damage and turned many away.

Now having lived for many years in the Middle East and (still learning) Arabic, has opened so many doors of knowledge, mercy and guidance.

Thank you for a great article which make me grateful for where I am today in my understanding.

May Allah guide us all to Him and make us from the pious ones on the straight path. Ameen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jazakallah Khair for the article Abu Uwais. I too am a &#8216;leftover&#8217; from the hay day of HT and Muhajiroun and completely agree with what have said. </p>

<p>With hindsight, their Islam is one which is very dry and bland, totally lacking any sense of spirituality or real knowledge. I remember that only &#8216;knowledge&#8217; that they gave was based of the &#8216;culture&#8217; they used to give, which was based on a few small books which you were meant to read and learn in order to become a &#8216;debater&#8217;!</p>

<p>I remember them being based out of many ISOCs across the UK, debating anyone and everyone, which initially was very attractive, but then lost is sheen as there was nothing of substance behind them. Them being oncampus eventually lead to all sorts of problems for muslims on campus, and fuelled the wahhabi call to &#8216;Ahlus Sunnah&#8217;, which I suppose at least was based on some knowledge, but then their calls against so called bidah and shirk after every other sentence became just as bad as it went against what the majority of muslims have believed in for 100’s of years. At the time though, they seemed right as the ‘traditionals’ were nowhere to be seen. True that there were some tablighi brothers around, but then again their passive attitude didn’t really help anyone much, especially the student Muslim trying to separate the wood from the chaff.</p>

<p>I remember that a senior brother in HT and then Muhajiroun, questioned the senior leadership regarding the so called ‘government in waiting’ that they claimed to have in the Middle East. He wanted to go and visit them, to which no satisfactory response was given. The only response what that these people qualified and available and were ready to take up power when ‘nusra’ was achieved!  I also found that all their talks were just repeats, being played over and over, no matter what the topic or subject of discussion.</p>

<p>I too saw the many burnouts of such ‘dawah’ and felt unable to reconcile the evil west image being portrayed with the very same people allowing fraud, walking around in designers and having very little knowledge of basic fiqh and about their religion in general. Islam is based on humanity and appeals to the fitrah, so such ideas just didn’t seem right from the get go, no matter how they were justified.</p>

<p>I think that the presence of HT (and Muhajiroun and the wahhabis) did wake up the traditional schools, which lead to somewhat of a renaissance in traditional Islamic thinking and following. I think I was one of the lucky ones that got out of the melting pot before it got too hot and started questioning just as you did, and had like minded brothers around me. This led me to develop somewhat of a balanced view and to look around to search for sunni scholars. Now almost household names amongst sunnis, names like Shaikh Yacoubi, Jifri, Nuh, Tahir Ul Qadri, etc, etc, were almost like gems back then! </p>

<p>As you said, one thing they did do was so raise a level of awareness about Islam in the minds of the youth, which was a good thing, and for that I am grateful, but their work did do a lot of damage and turned many away.</p>

<p>Now having lived for many years in the Middle East and (still learning) Arabic, has opened so many doors of knowledge, mercy and guidance.</p>

<p>Thank you for a great article which make me grateful for where I am today in my understanding.</p>

<p>May Allah guide us all to Him and make us from the pious ones on the straight path. Ameen.</p>
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