Here we are discussing whether Islam needs a Gandhi, in order to explain my view I was referring to other things.

You seem to have narrow-minded worldview. BJP doesn’t represent Hindus as osama bin laden doesn’t represent Muslims.

Regarding Dr Abdul Kalam, What do you mean by a role model as a practicing Muslim. He is indeed a practising Muslim and he is a role model for Muslims and non-Muslims. Can you tell me examples or criteria for being a practising Muslim, who can be a role model? If a nice and intelligent Muslim cannot be a role model, then who is the role model for you ?

History has lot of examples of religion showing the way to its followers, but here is a guy who is classic case of religion gaining respect due to its follower.

You are talking about freedoms in Muslim countries, if that is the case then where are all those non-Muslim role models from the Muslim countries you have quoted.

In Kuwait, we have churches of various denominations, and Hindus and Sikhs have their temples. I’m not aware of any social freedoms that are curtailed, unless you mean drinking alcohol. I think it’s the same in other countries, like the UAE, except that the other countries mostly allow alcohol. (Saudi is different, as we’ve said before.) By the way, Bali (part of Indonesia, which has the largest population of Muslims) is mostly Hindu, and there you see Hindu temples everywhere, Hindu religious processions, etc.

As for the propaganda that Hindus are anti-Muslim, I hope it’s not true, but certainly the statements and actions of the BJP would suggest that. And it’s nice to know that Dr. AbdulKalam is respected; he seems like a very intelligent and nice man, but he’s not exactly a role model as a practicing Muslim.

You pointed out the many Indians live safely in gulf countries. That doesn’t mean that they have religious and social freedoms. While Muslims demand to be treated well in western countries and indeed they are given lot of freedom to construct mosques and practice their religious beliefs, so called Islamic countries don’t provide the above said freedoms to non-Muslims. You pointed out that, If US and UK attack Hindu countries then Hindus would attack them, you bet we would do that, but not the innocent American and British citizens.

That’s exactly why Islam needs a Gandhi.

You might not know, but during the struggle for independence in India, there were violent freedom fighters (or today’s so called militants) and there was Gandhi’s non-violence. But Gandhi turned the anger and frustrations towards a non-violent freedom movement.

If there is some thing called western hypocrisy, then what about Muslim hypocrisy? If Muslims want their religion to be respected, they should respect other religions. Indian Muslims respect other religions and most Hindus respect Islam. That’s the reason Indian Muslims are the most progressive Muslims in the world. Millions of Indians idolize and adore people like Dr. Abdul Kalam, Shah Rukh Khan, Azim Premji and so on. Islam is showing these people the way and they in turn are inspiring millions of Indian irrespective of their religion. These people are trying to make the world better, But the suicide bombers in London want to go to heaven by turning the world into hell.

If not Gandhi, Islam and the world need at least hundreds of Abdul kalam’s or Azim Premji’s.

Does not belong to any creed, ideology or religion alhough they claim to own it more than the peolpe who lives accordingly.

Belief in my belief is something bettween you and the thing you believe in. like the case in moral and its values but it can me more open to hijacking.

The more one takes away from ones life the more succeptive to hijacking it becomes.

Beliefs does not need tolerance as long as they stay between you and the thing you believei in.

But when it is hjacked to be a social thing (or something you need to talk about).

One should not go the Mosque to learn Islam or to the Church to learn Chist. Those places are there to pray to the believed.

Just like the schools every schooll has it own quality. You can not compare MIT to the North London Polly.

Every society has its own religion learning faculties. I learned everything from my grandmother. You might have it in a different way. None is beter but all according to the living conditions.

Blair and Bush got blurred in explaining to the people what they are about. They might be after some grater good for humanity or for thier people.

They not only failed to convince anyone including Vatican or the Vatican that every muslim caries built in or even the Jerusalem is not shure. They Hijacked the religion. Resistors has got no media no warfare but the Vatican in every muslim. They hjacked that.

I do not and cannot believe or made belive to force people to change or do something they don’t belive. If anybody’s believed wanted force to applied to human being to belive he would have done easyly.

I used No30 bus and No25 for five years, used the underground too. Yes even by then we were warned about terorizm too. We were always watchfull. But it was okey because we always do the same in Turkey. The guys who were a treat to Turkey was living in London masterminding everting from there. They have never arrested deported etc. until recently.

I always thought one of the Turk’s that died could have easyly be me if I stayed on.

I believe first thing towards toleraance is that every politician who talk about religion in any way should immediately be jailled or better put the Guantanamo or somewhere worst than that.

Politics should stay out of religion and beliefs of people. Look at the Kosovo when there was no poltician talking aboud any creed or religion there was no or litle problem.

When politicians started to scratch the religion and creeds neighbours killed one another, In africa husbands and wifes killed one another.

So one has to do the easy thing first. Tell the so called low abiding people of politics to stay aut of personal lifes of people and then hunt for the outlaws, terorist, extreemest etc.

We are different people.

I’m not making this point because I agree or disagree with Jabithew. Just want to make the distinction clear.

Sorry I don’t have time to check for typos!

So you exclude those who don’t base their beliefs and moral values on what is passed down in dodgy writings - mostly about, not from so called prophets. Those who don’t claim to derive theire beliefs from a “god” or someone “enlightened” by “god”. Please define me “tolerance” and please explain who is separating here!?

I believe I believe in a religion that ecceps anyone in that can say I believe in god and prophets.

I therefore cannot tell who is Muslim. I also cannot tell what to do to the Muslims I also do not accept any one teaching me what to do unless I ask them to.

There cannot be a religious authorty that can say this or that

I also belong to nation that acceps anyone in by just calling self as a Turk

There is nobody but god can forgive and judge me for my sins.

God is most merciful.

These are the base of my belief it is not mostly routed in any scripture but in the base of our social life.

In any fight (or war) there need to be at least two sides. One need to stop being a side to be a seperator and or a peace giving party. But what I am feeling by the way both sides speaking is that I belong to the other side.

Even with the best wishes of mine to stop both parties of doing what they are doing . they are soon to point me as an oponent side fighter.

So there is something wrong with the way their cases are put forward.

Ä°s this the regular media distortion that makes this thing seem so or is there an intention underneath for a greater or more sinister purpose.

Whether or not you believe in the way I do but we believe in Muslim and when we pray we pray for all the believers and this includes all the believers of all the prophets mentioned in and all the living and the death of all.

My call is to all belivers (any way you belive) dont let anyone in between you and the thing you believein.