Comments on: Melanie Phillips soundbite of the week (2)

By: bikhair

bikhair — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:43:49 +0000

Yusuf,

“The more alternative lifestyles become ordained as mainstream, with dissidents treated as social pariahs if they try to uphold traditional moral norms, the more those moral norms are undermined.”

No the dissidents are seen as Islamist who want to impose Sharia on Europe and turn the natives into dhimmis. Ha Ha Ha…

By: DrM

DrM — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:35:56 +0000

Yeah I know Raimondo is a right wing libertarian, I should have made that clear in my previous post.

By: George Carty

George Carty — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:07:12 +0000

DrM, Raimondo is not a leftist but a right-wing libertarian. I suspect he is more anti-Clinton than pro-Milosevic.

By: DrM

DrM — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:39:26 +0000

George, Raimondo is totally offbase on Serbia. He does some good work but his pro-Milocovic writings were a disgrace, and one of the reasons I deeply distrust many on the left, some of whom deny Milosovic’s atrocities. But you are correct that neocons arent united.

By: George Carty

George Carty — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:03:11 +0000

DrM, it was Justin Raimondo who claimed that neocons supported the Kosovo war to divert Muslim attention from Palestine. I don't think neoconservatives are united - some want total American supremacy, while others are Islam-haters above all and willing to ally with (for example) Russia to that end...

By: DrM

DrM — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 03:52:15 +0000

George, I remember clearly people like Bill Kristol(publisher of the neocon toilet paper “the weekly standard”)being against the bombing of Serbia. The few in the movement that were for it saw it as a show of force by the US deep in the heart of Europe, and also to say “hi” to the Russians and establish military bases in the region.

By: Bikhair

Bikhair — Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:06:34 +0000

George Carty,

“I suspect the Muslim riots in France, the Ahmedinejad election victory in Iran, and the Hamas election victory in Palestine have dealt a one-two-three punch to the idea that Muslims are thirsty for western secular democracy.”

There was nothing more Western, secular, or democratic than for the Muslims to riot in France. If people didnt view everything violent with Islam and Muslims, they would see that it is their traditions but with darker and swarthier faces.

In regard to the elections of Hamas, I would imagine that it is more complex than what you have reduced it to. Remeber “Islamist” dont vote or they do vote when they stand to win. This may call into questions their preference for tradition since it can be compromised for modern political convinience. Isnt compromising of tradition what the Westerners want for Muslims?

By: Bikhair

Bikhair — Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:58:44 +0000

Shamil,

“That might just be the best point you’ve ever made.”

I am both insulted and flattered since I make so many points about so many things.

It is a rather disingenuous discourse. On the one hand, you cant immigrate anymore Muslims into Europeans or Western countries because they undermine freedom and democracy, but you must send your best and brightest to fight for it in these Muslim countries because the human spirit desires it so much.

It never made sense to me which is why I believe that most people speak to their agenda.

By: George Carty

George Carty — Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:10:12 +0000

I suspect the Muslim riots in France, the Ahmedinejad election victory in Iran, and the Hamas election victory in Palestine have dealt a one-two-three punch to the idea that Muslims are thirsty for western secular democracy.

By: Shamil

Shamil — Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:46:05 +0000

You gotta give me your opinion on those who would argue that Iraqis are, were, could have been thirsty for democracy but the Muslims on the streets of European capitals are not? What is the difference between these Muslim peoples except to say that many of the Muslims in Europe today, espeically the Turks (I have my misgivings about their religiosity) and the Algerians or North Africans come from already very Westernized countries of the Muslim world. Is that an argument that contradicts itself in anyway?

That might just be the best point you’ve ever made.

The answer is of course that people like Melanie Phillips are not providing a genuine discourse. They are providing misinformation so people will think the way they want them to. Such a tactic is bound to result in contradictions. Another example is how Mad Mel seeks to promote traditional British culture but at the same time in other articles attacks British culture for being innately anti-semitic.