Afterall the TV is projecting real (yet unreal) pictures that do tend to incite or provoke real bad actions in the society. This has been overly documented in multitudes of research. PG logo on movies would not solve the problem.

From an Islamic view point, I am not sure that the same state which actively promotes/permits promiscuity has the right to charge anyone for rape, adultery, etc. that occurs as a direct result of its permissiveness. The judgement with God is different.

Stupid man is already living his hell on earth. What more hell does he need?

Then we blame God for all our problems and suffering. So, God will punish us for libel, …welcome to club class hell.

If you have a constructive argument to make that is relevant to the topic, I would love to hear it.

I read Yusuf’s thoughtful and reasoned post extremely carefully. Perhaps you could learn to be a little more thoughtful and reasoned yourself.

Ann, while some of the points you make are true, there is undoubtedly a greater stigma in Muslim and other conservative societies against women who have been raped. Also some rapes, for example of a wife by her husband, or a wife in an arranged marriage that is really a forced one, would not be seen as such in many Muslim countries. This may be cultural rather than to do with Islam, but it is certainly a point to take on board.

I think that rape is less prevalent in a conservative Muslim society.

Besides everything else, there are just fewer opportunities for a man to grab and rape a woman. For example, women don’t live alone; they often live in large homes with several families (in the extended family). This is true for men, too; adults who aren’t married still live with their families.

When women go out shopping or socializing, they’re often accompanied by mothers, sisters, aunts, friends, cousins, etc. It’s not so common for a woman to be out driving by herself late at night or in a dangerous or unpopulated area (and impossible in a place like Saudi Arabia).

Many of the rapes that occur in the West are so-called “date rapes”, where a man and a woman go out together, then go back to one of their places, often intoxicated, etc. This is not a common situation in a Muslim society.

Even some of the incidents that are called “rape” are not what would be considered “rape” in the West. Sometimes a young couple want to marry, but the family refuses, so the young woman runs away and stays with the man, in order to force the family to allow the marriage. Even if the woman consented to sex, if she is under 18, the man can be charged with rape.

But I would like to add one thing to this, in my opinion, the issue in the kind of man’s mind who would perpetrate rape as to what a woman is wearing or not wearing is a red herring.

In my opinion,, it is actually whether or not she is “out” in the world without being accompanied by a man. I say this because I experienced more aggressive sexual harassment wearing hijab in Muslim countries than I ever have by any man in the west, Muslim or otherwise. In many situations it was constant and pervasive. And very frightening.

Which says to me that the kind of man who behaves in this matter regards any woman who is not obviously in the possesion of a man, in that moment (when she is alone on the street) as fair game. Since she is not being properly controlled (kept at home by her menfolk), there is nothing wrong with “stealing her.” Of course, this attitude is held also by non-Muslim rapists, but I think that the attitude by this Australian Iman underscores a belief system that is quite institutionalized in a fairly large sub-set of the Muslim population (I would add that there are a lot of women who have bought into the idea that if a woman is out there, alone, wearing whatever, she is “asking for it”).

[…]”I think it is disingenuous to deny that in the west men are perceived as being more sexually agressive than women.”[…]

I don’t even think it’s even a particularly “traditional” or controversial belief. I’ve heard plenty of “liberal” people elude to it in passing.

Obviously his comments are deeply insulting to women, but also to men - he implies that men are like animals with no control. Also, rape is an act of violence and an expression of power. It occurs in all societies. In the West, I think, women feel more able to report rape without thinking they will be blamed for it, and this is something that Muslim countries could learn from us.

People must take responsibility for their actions.

For those Muslims that disagree with the Shaikh completely, I would like to ask them what the reason is in Islam that a woman has to cover her adornments? It seems obvious to me that it’s a safeguard against zina. Of course it’s not 100% effective but it does offer some protection. The way I see it, if a woman doesn’t display her beauty, she’s less likely to have a man fall in love with her and thus less likely the chance of zina occuring.

“most rapists are not looking for a sexy figure but for an easy target”

Most rapists - so what about the rest?

“But all this is academic given that rape is never acceptable, no matter how slutty the woman is or appears to be.”

That is true.

“I somehow find it within myself to walk past women in various states of dress and undress every day without having the urge to jump on them.”

No doubt you can, but still the Quran asks you to lower your gaze and for the women to cover up, so that surely proves something.