My last long post was a reply to Umar Lee, who posted an attack on so-called Rand Institute Muslims and Shaikh Hamza Yusuf specifically. His post has provoked a series of angry responses and equally angry counter-arguments. Now, the discussion has descended into an all-out slanging match, with one individual posting a disgraceful personal slur sourced from his father, who is not even a Muslim, based on one look at a flyer, people lining up to defend him and his father, and some specific accusations being posted against Shaikh Nuh Keller and Shaikh Muhammad al-Ya’qoobi. Normally I would not post at length about such matters, but these issues need answering.
First, I am mystified about why people are so keen to defend the individual who posted a remark like this about any Muslim. Let us get this straight, making insulting remarks about someone’s appearance is ghiba and is haraam, and if anyone is responsible for exposing the source of that remark to ridicule, it is the person who posted it, namely his son. To my mind, anyone who would say such a thing is a vulgar lout.
Further on, there is a bitter attack on Shaikh Nuh from one Saad Abdullah, to which I would like to respond point by point:
The comments of Murid are reflective of the sad state of Sh. Nuh and his followers. When he comes to town, they wipe is ass, carry his shoes and treat him like the catholics treat the pope. The strange thing about Sh. Nuh is the only people who think he’s on the footing of the major scholars in the world are his ignorant murids? Does he sit on any major scholarly councils Sufi or otherwise? Has he presented one scholarly work or paper to any major gathering of Ulema?
I cannot believe for a moment that anybody performs the first of these personal services for the shaikh other than the man himself. It is haraam for anyone to do this for someone who is capable of doing it himself, because it involves exposing the awrah. Even if this is an exaggeration, it still conveys the idea that people go to unlawful excesses in the service of the shaikh, and if anyone really were asked to do such a thing, they would have refused, and walked out without hesitation. The shaikh has always emphasised the importance of the Shari’ah, particularly since there are some well-known supposed Sufi shaikhs who do not (albeit to a lesser extent than this).
As for whether he sits on this council or that, that is not the only measure of a shaikh.
We know how he gets his Ijazat in hadih. He goes to a reading of a major book, done at 100mph with no explanation, with a few hundred students and after the Sh. Finishes reading the text, gets his Ijaza and broadcasts it. We know because we have seen him there and seen him there sitting like a normal person.
The shaikh got his ijaaza in hadeeth from Shaikh Shu’aib Arnaut. Surely he has plenty of students, and there are other observers, who would pick up anybody making false claims to have ijaazaat in any science. The shaikh has had many enemies, and essays and even a whole book have been written attacking him, yet somehow nobody has noticed this until now.
A simple question, can Sheikh Nuh even pronounce Daad or Ghayn correctly? Can he read the Qur’an without mistakes. Juniad said, “Our way, the sufi way, is based on the Book and the Sunna. Whoever fails to study the Qur’an and Sunna is not from us. Where are all of these Sufi sheikhs in the reading of the Qur’an? Where are the Ijazaat in that? You know where please tell us Murid? The Qur’an, in the traditional school, is the first book to be mastered? And this guy, who you would clean his toliet and drink is piss, can’t even get an Ijaza in al-Fatiha?
Is this an actual question or a rhetorical one? Shaikh Nuh has lived in the Levant for more than 25 years. He has had all that time to study. Doubtless he would still have an accent when speaking Arabic as it is not his native tongue, but no doubt also he would have learned how to pronounce Arabic at least recognisably if not absolutely correctly. And again, you make suggestions of unlawful personal exposure. I am not one of Shaikh Nuh’s closest or most diligent students by any means, but cleaning someone’s toilet is a perfectly lawful form of service while a shaikh’s urine is as much najaasat as anyone else’s. Perhaps this is hyperbole, but it still implies haraam, and it’s ghiba.
There follows some accusations against Shaikh Muhammad al-Ya’qoobi, which I will not repeat - you can find them on Umar’s page - but I will say that the shaikh lost two wives in quick succession a couple of years ago. The shaikh is entitled to marry whoever he likes and if you move to a country with a spouse and the marriage fails early, the norm is that you go back home. That is as true in the UK as in Syria. Mureeds leave shaikhs for all manner of reasons, not least because they no longer have the ability or inclination to follow the tariqa.
Again, one must raise the question of why Saad’s accusations have taken this long to surface if there is any truth to them. There are plenty of people in Philadelphia who oppose Shaikh Ya’qoobi’s teachings and would have spread any such gossip on the “salafi” web, as they have never been above slander and exposing a major anti-“salafi” shaikh as a pervert as well as a religious deviant would be a major coup for them, so why have we heard nothing about it until now? Many of us have no tolerance for sexual abuse (some of us have experienced it ourselves) and we would be greatly shocked if such a thing was revealed to us.
Why is there no talk of the murids who became murtdadin after leaving Sh. Nuh? After someone joins this cult do they work with other groups? Do they become active in the Mosque? Do they bring good to the USA. No, the stay at home, pray, make trouble and warn people to stay away from the “Wahaaaabi” mosque!
So what if someone leaves a shaikh and then leaves Islam? Perhaps they would have left Islam anyway. Perhaps they just left Islam, and left the shaikh by virtue of doing so. How many students (the word murid in this tariqa is only used for students at advanced stages; ordinary students are called muntaasiboon) have joined and stayed? Probably very many. The tariqa has grown enough in the UK alone to become too big for the University of Leeds which has been hosting its suhba meetings. From my personal experience, students are not expected to devote much time to bashing Wahhabis. In fact, communal infighting is very strongly discouraged, and there are many students from both Deobandi and Bareilawi backgrounds among the British students.
If Sh. Nuh told you to divorce your spouse would you do it? If he told you you could no longer talk to certain murids would you do it? If he told to quite your job and run to Jordan, where the Jordanian government, ala Prince Gaza, have built for him an Zawiyah, given him residence and bankrolled his bida, funny he charges the salafis with the petro dollars claim while he prostitutes the Jordaninans, would YOU do it?
The shaikh very strongly discourages divorce. I have his Virginia Suhba tapes, in which he actually says something like “divorce is not a word we use”. So, the idea that he would expect a student to divorce his wife is unthinkable, unless it was obvious to him that the marriage was bad for one or both parties. The idea that he would do so because he coveted the wife is even more absurd. The shaikh protects himself from this kind of temptation, by requiring female students to cover their faces while in male company (including his) at tariqa meetings, or even when visiting Syria and Jordan. Why would he do this when it is a barrier between whatever are his desires and their fulfilment?
The accusations regarding Saudi oil money are much more serious than the Jordanian government funding (wholly or partially) a zawiyah for the shaikh, if they have done. The accusations include, for example, that oil money persuaded publishing houses in Beirut to publish editions of classical texts with bits whited out, so as to obscure negative references to Wahhabism. One brother told me that in discussions with local “salafis” in south London, when he brought up the topic of “salafis” re-writing parts of classical texts to suit their agenda, to an extent that Shaikh Nuh had to travel all the way to Hadramaut to find an edition of a book by Imam Nawawi that had not been tampered with, they defended the practice. How do you think Shaikh Nuh has been influenced by Jordanian money?
Sh. Nuh is not a scholar of fiqh or any other major Islamic science. His murids will counter that he translated Umdat al-Salik. This text is a beginners texts in the Shafi school memorized in the past by children. Until Sh. Nuh’s murids are able to accept legitimate critique like the one above, the only thing they can be labled as is a cult.
This betrays the ignorance of this commentator. Reliance of the Traveller is much more than a translation of that book, as anyone who has read it will know. It contains substantial material extracted from other classical Islamic texts, not just from the Shafi’i madhhab; some of these are to explain matters raised in the book, some of them address aspects of obligatory knowledge to a depth not reached by the original book, and some of them addressing modern Islamic issues, and there are also explanatory notes by contemporary scholars, particularly his own shaikhs. It certainly is not a book for children; even the original text addresses issues no adult would discuss with a child.
In short, this man wants to make out Shaikh Nuh to be little more than someone who has attended a few basic lessons and received token ijaazas and made himself a shaikh on the back of that. As far as I know, the shaikh does not claim to be a mujtahid and nobody believes him to be other than a teacher of Islam who is authorised to transmit the Shadhili tariqa. In my experience, his students are very dignified in response to the attacks on the shaikh and his shuyookh from activists of the “salafi” sect; they have provoked nothing like the furious emotional outcry which greets any suggestion that certain other shaikhs are not what they are made out to be.
Shaikh Nuh’s students are among the least cult-like Muslims I’ve ever come across; in contrast to some subcontinental tariqa groups, the students are not required to avoid other shaikhs other than when they are actually teaching Sufism. They are not required to boycott any other Muslims and I have never heard any of them express an attitude of contempt for Muslims outside the tariqa, and they hold some of their dhikr meetings in mosques (at least two in London). In addition, participation in the tariqa is voluntary on both sides, and the student can quit any time he likes.
I call upon Saad Abdullah to present his evidence if he has any, otherwise to make tawba and fear Allah. The communities in which Shaikh Nuh and Shaikh al-Ya’qoobi live have had years to observe and complain about their behaviour if there was any complaint to make, and many would do so readily if they could, and yet we have to wait for him to pop up on Umar Lee’s blog to find all this out! Put up if you have anything to put up, or shut up!
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Salaam. There’s a saying here that is appropriate. Don’t feed the trolls. Umar Lee is an internet troll, pure and simple, and doesn’t know much about anything. His friends are even rougher around the edges, and seem to think this is somehow praiseworthy. May Allah refine our spirits and make us of the people who truly understand.
Salaams. That comment from the brother was just plain crass. It was disgusting for all the reasons you mention, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention how simply low it was… I mean, the brother swore… how are we supposed to take him seriously?
This is a very measured and quality response. I must however clarify that your statements about the qualities of Sh Nuh’s mureeds are based on your experiences with them in the U.K. and it is possible that the brother has had a different experience. Horrible and ridiculous as I find his charges, it is true that there are some (if not many) of Sh Nuh’s followers here in the U.S. that most certainly do treat other Muslims very poorly, both non-tariqa folks, those of other tariqas, and even “lower” members of their own tariqa. Sadly, I’ve found that the majority of his followers (not all) that I have known are amongst the most intolerant and lacking in adab of any people, Muslim or non. I do not, however, feel that has anything to do with him or his teaching, but is simply a human reality. When we get a little knowledge, we think we are better than others. And everyone has their difficult patches that they have to work through, times when we are not on our best behavior. There is also a decidedly “thugish” mentality (as evidenced in the other posts you allude to) in American Islam. May Allah open our hearts and save us from our own nasty tendencies.
I feel physically sick after reading that comment. I cannot believe that Umar Lee would approve such comments. Such abhorrent slander, lies and absolutely evil talk. Shocking and appalling.
Bismillah
as salamu ‘alaykum
To turn all of this negativity into positive I would like to share something about our beloved Sheikh Nuh. A murid of Sheikh Nuh shared with us that a brother (the brother who runs the latifiyya there in London) said that a sister told his wife that a Yemeni man traveled to Jordan for medical treatment. He had a dream about the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) wherein the Prophet told him (the yemeni man) to convey to Sheikh Nuh Keller that Allah has granted him Jannah for his work on Dalail al khairat. This was related to Birmingham murids by one of the brothers who attended the Egypt Suhba.
This is something to make anyone say Alhamdulillah who loves Sheikh Nuh. May Allah protect him and his family from the harm of those who envy and speak ignorance. Ameen
If anything, these ignorant fools who like to spend their time bashing without knowledge, should be abandoned. I hope the admins of deenport remove Umar Lee’s blog from their feed for allowing such nonsense to be uttered. la ilaha illa Allah
Sallams.
I was totally disgusted by those comments.
I don’t understand why Umar allows such comments to be posted on his blog?
When you turn to the dark side, darkness emits. This is an example thereof! This comment from “saad” is easily refutable. I feel sorry for Sa’ad and his aakhira. May Allah guide him and us amin!
Mr. Saad is either a disgruntled former Murid (of whoever), or he is just an angry Salafi.
If he is a disgruntled former Murid, then he can add his name to the list of the countless number of people who had Shaykhs and for whatever reason, were tossed out of the path. People like him are not new, just read the books of the folk, particularly Imam al-Sha’rani. May Allah protect us and preserve us. Amin
On the other hand, if Mr. Saad is just a Salafi and not a disgruntled former Murid, then, as they say: “People in glass houses should’nt throw stones.”
And yes, murids (no matter the Tariq) can have bad behavior and be elitists. After all, there is only one letter difference between Murid and Marid (sick). It not justified and, quite honestly, sickening, but if your not sick, dont go to the hospital.
Salaams,
Aaminah wrote,
“Sadly, I’ve found that the majority of his followers (not all) that I have known are amongst the most intolerant and lacking in adab of any people, Muslim or non. I do not, however, feel that has anything to do with him or his teaching…”
I once attended a lecture by Shaikh Nuh Keller and still do not know how I managed to sit through the whole of it; it was the most shocking, most intolerant thing I ever heard, I felt like I’d been hit on the head with a sledgehammer for days after that lecture. So I am not suprised to hear some of his students are intolerant too.
As for that first comment on Umar Lee’s blog, why anyone would want to respond to that I do not know. How can that serve as a basis for any discussion?
saggal, Salams
I’d be interested to know what was so intolerant. Was it something the Shaikh said?
Salaams…
Sorry to abuse your comments a moment, Yusuf, LOL… Saggal, haven’t spoken to you in forever! Please email me cuz I don’t have yours, or look me up on FB! :)
salam
Allah reward you for your response and defence of the Shaykhs.
the original post was unbelievable and quite simply shows the level of disease and decline in segments of the ummah, segments which even profess to ‘practice’ islam outwardly.
its a sign of acceptance that such people face vehement opposition and filthy insults, being spewed in the name of ‘commanding the good and forbidding evil’ yet the reality is outright slander.
IMHO, no need to defend these Shaykhs, Allah defends them.
let people read his comments in abundance - all it does is show his true character and gives us a glimpse of his inner state.
may Allah protect us from listening to and reading slander of the ulama
My experience of Shaykh Nuh’s mureeds has been similar to brother Yusuf’s, perhaps things are different in the US. But in the UK, I’ve always found them to be very friendly, welcoming, polite and well-mannered. I’ve also known them to have good relations with non-mureeds, and can think of many examples of this and no examples of them being elitist or treating non-mureeds or non-Muslims badly.
Both Shaykh Nuh and Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi are shining lanterns of guidance in this ummah, and we are blessed in the West to have them frequent our lands and allow us to glimpse some of that light. And the sick slander being spread around does not harm our shuyukh, may Allah increase them, it only harms the ones gaining in sins by saying such evil about men of Allah. May Allah protect others from being affected by it.
There is no doubt in my mind that you guys are a cult. Think about it. The signs are clear.
Salaam, The recent blog entries reinforce in my mind why I dont want to be part of the new commnunities of sheikhs. The sheikhs and their followers are good people but the trends are always the same that end in some sort of a superiority complex with regard to a “competitor” following or “cult”. Today, I dont belong to a “community” or “cult” and live my life as a Muslim. I am not a professional muslim like some, but just a Muslim. I have had my ears drummed by some of these “communities” and it is all about how right their view of Islam is compared to another “community”. I think that some of the superiority complexes of the “communities” comes from a desire to grow into almost corporate like identities so that the host country’s governments see them as influential. Whatever.
Salaam Yusuf,
It is a common expression in America to use the term “wiping his a**”, when referring to people who are obsessed with pleasing others. I do not believe it was meant to be taken literally…
However….
It is disgusting speech to use when referring to any persons behavior (esp scholars). To see this sick, deep-seated hatred get a front row seat on Umar’s blog is very disturbing.
I have lost respect for his work.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Sis. Fairuza: in the context (clean his toilet, drink his urine, wipe his backside) I don’t believe he meant it other than literally. In some disciplines (not in Islam) juniors really do perform those kinds of intimate services for people in authority.
Salaams - first off, Umar had a pop at me. I laughed out loud when I read it. In fact, his street rhetoric is beautiful in its own way, but most of its meaning is dafter than a brush.
Second, I recently had a pop at one well known Shaykh. I did it in language that was inappropriate and I regret that. But stuff this Shaykh has done makes me angry. And I would extend my concerns to the celebrity culture that seems to surround famous Sufis. My understanding is that humility is at the core of true knowledge and the greatest Muslim I have ever met was someone who blended into the crowd.
Bismillah
as salamu ‘alaykum
I would like to remind everyone that what brother Yusuf was doing was trying to show the positive side to the negative and stupid remarks that were uttered on Umar’s blog. When we decide we want to ‘expose’ the horrible manners we’ve came across of murids we ourselves haven’t kept ourselves in check because it is ghibah, bottom line.
Saggal…you said:
I once attended a lecture by Shaikh Nuh Keller and still do not know how I managed to sit through the whole of it; it was the most shocking, most intolerant thing I ever heard, I felt like I’d been hit on the head with a sledgehammer for days after that lecture. So I am not suprised to hear some of his students are intolerant too.
==
What was so intolerant about his lecture? It’s only fair after your statement.
As-salamu `alaykum,
So what if someone leaves a shaikh and then leaves Islam? Perhaps they would have left Islam anyway. Perhaps they just left Islam, and left the shaikh by virtue of doing so. How many students (the word murid in this tariqa is only used for students at advanced stages; ordinary students are called muntaasiboon) have joined and stayed? Probably very many. The tariqa has grown enough in the UK alone to become too big for the University of Leeds which has been hosting its suhba meetings.
You are right, it probably does not matter too much but it is not a bad idea to set the record straight. If a good amount of murids have indeed left Islam perhaps this is something the masses need to be aware of. Perhaps this means there is something deficient in the Shaykh’s teachings. Of course no one except the Prophets is infallible and free from major mistakes, let alone one’s own spiritual guide.
From my personal experience, students are not expected to devote much time to bashing Wahhabis. In fact, communal infighting is very strongly discouraged, and there are many students from both Deobandi and Bareilawi backgrounds among the British students.
This is cetainly not what we have witnessed on the internet in the past few years. One of the sternest [and nastiest] critics of wahabism have been your co-murids (i.e., murids of Shaykh Nuh). In fact, the muridin of Shaykh Nuh have not spared Deobandis and at times even Barelwis (although traditionally they have been less critical of Barelwis). These are facts. I have ample evidence to back up this statement of mine but in the interests of not diverting this topic (and starting another controversy), I’m not going to go into any details. I just thought I’d set the record straight because your sugar-coating this particular aspect is dishonest and misleading.
As salam ‘alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
I think we should all take heart that these comments have provoked the outrage that they have. May God preserve the ulema and their teachings! In the meanwhile I even found the inspiration to write a poem on the subject:
“Souwfeey”
When frothing fundamentalists allot To those of love the term cult, what is sought? Have they left all sense or are they content With the pot calling the kettle a pot?
Bismillah
Perhaps the problem is that people want instant gratification and when they can’t find it they give up entirely? Perhaps those people who took the tariq to begin with had problems submitting and when they realized that taking a tariq is hard work and that only those that seek success succeed they couldn’t take the rules of Islam anymore. What is Islam without Ihsan? Rules!
Assalamu alaikum, how was Shaykh Nuh’s lectures intolerant? I’ve heard one of his lectures on tape, and didn’t find his speaking style to be my cup of tea, but that’s OK. I have read many of his articles, though.
I’d like to know why his murids in the US seem to be, well, “worse”, than those in the UK?
At any rate, even though he may not be my cup of tea, etc., I have no reason, nor would I even try, to question his scholarship, where he got his ijazas from, etc. Because, as far as I know, he was taught by qualified scholars. It seems that the person, or people, making these sorts of allegations against him, Sh. Hamza, etc., are Salafi in methodology and have always been making these sorts of Allegations, although if the commentor known as “swarthmoor” is anything to go by, it seems that not all “traditionalists” agree with him either, and other Western scholars.
the thing is, though, unless something is just out and out plain not Islam, like people openly drinking, etc., I hesitate in criticizing any actions or statements, no matter how uncomfortable they may make me feel, just simply because I have such a lack of knowledge, that I may inadvertently be criticizing something that is, indeed, permissible.
You see, if you belong to a tariq, this is just part of the process really; being maligned, people having bad thoughts about you, et al.
One of the problems found in any tariq is what Sh. Ahmad Zarruq called “al-ta’azzuz bil-tariq”, or feeling pride in one’s spiritual path. This is common, and is what leads to that elitist mentality. When people say that some sufis have an elitist mentality, we should not be so quick to deny it. I mean, hey, Sh. Zarruq mentioned it as a problem in his time, so what about now?
The line is of course drawn when people start to slander the character and religion of scholars. Even then however, it is to be expected from those who oppose the folk, so if someone is ascribed to a path and actually following it, he or she should not waste his time trying to, as one Shaykh put it: “make the world safe for sufism”.
On the issue of some of the mureeds of Nuh Keller leaving Islaam, then no Muslim should be happy about this and there is no excuse in Islaam for apostacy except (ikraah)compulsion. But at the same time, you see many Sufis gloating over the term “Salafi burnout” as if “burnout” was something exclusive to Salafis and doesn’t occur in other sects or groups. I was browsing through this book, “Journey into Islam: The Crisis of Globalization”, a few months ago where Nuh Keller was asked about the Deobandis and he called them, “Salafi burnout”. I don’t know what context this statement was made, but this is a serious charge. As for the Jordanian government backing Nuh Keller, it does matter. The Jordanian government is just as bad as the Saudi government in colloborating with the enemies of Islaam. If Nuh Keller can criticise Taliban for their mistakes, what does he say about the Jordanian government and its foreign policy?
This is why I have a problem with these groups— they focus too much on the people they are learning from rather than the ultimate goal of Allah. Why have I only heard from people who are in these groups how much they love their teacher and how much they love the Prophet (Salla l-laahu `alayhi wasallam) and now how they are brought closer to Allah by the knowledge they gained from them? Why do I only get justifications along the lines of “people followed and loved the Prophet this way so it is allowed to love and follow our teachers this way” as if they are equating their teachers to the Prophet himself?
Shaytan does not whisper less to these “scholars” (real or not, Salafi or Sufi) than to the rest of us. They are human beings with flaws and to think otherwise is to open oneself up to being seriously hurt and disappointed.
Maybe in the old days this model of following a teacher so devotedly worked. But in these days I don’t believe it is possible anymore. My husband likes to tell me there is a Hadeeth in which the Prophet salla l-laahu `alayhi wa sallam says that a time will come when religious knowledge will become scarce and the scholars will become ‘the worst thing under the heavens’. Perhaps we have reached this time.
I don’t agree with those who have spread dirt all over the net, don’t get me wrong. It is extremely bad adab and it should not concern the rest of us. But I also caution those of you who are very emotionally reacting to that dirt that you need to consider the possibility that your teachers could be actual human beings who do things wrong. If the goal of your relationship with your teacher is to learn things that you did not know so that you can become more attentive to your Lord, you should not be concerned. Let somebody accuse your teachers of murder or even shirk, but if you have benefitted from them in terms of your relationship with Allah in a manner consistent with our aqeedah and shariah, it shouldn’t matter what your teacher did in his/her private life. But if you see your teacher as some kind of flawless, untouchable, intermediary through which you will access your Lord, you are quite mistaken. (Actually, Br. Umar Lee needs to think about that too…his teachers are not flaw-free either…)
And it is so true that “My understanding is that humility is at the core of true knowledge and the greatest Muslim I have ever met was someone who blended into the crowd.” This is well-known throughout our traditon and it is well attested to by those who have been with such hidden giants.
Fame and visibility carry with it many fitan- not physical ones of the type that have been discussed necessarily— but spiritual, mental, pychological ones. Again, anyone who believes there is anyone in this whole world who is immune from these things is seriously, seriously mistaken.
I speak from experience. And I pray that He who Created us will heal our hearts and truly make our prayers, our sacrifices, our living and our dying ONLY for HIM.
Reading these comments, the word ‘elitist’ is an obvious failing of what people term ‘Sufism’ in the modern and, no doubt, in the classical period.
Any one concerned with social equality and the importance of the word ‘adl will sense that the atmosphere in places where zikr take place are hierarchical and oddly ‘elitist’.
In some, perhaps the extreme tariqas, the Shaikh and his close Murids have an endogamous control of women (esp if they are white reverts) and the Murids (esp if they are Asians) have an eager tendency to marry off their daughters to white reverts.
Apart from that, the role blacks have in some of these tariqas is clearly in conflict with the positive impulses since the Civil Rights. Frankly, it is hurful seeing people of the African diaspora acting as if they are living under Jim Crow. In some, not all, tariqas this is sadly the case.
In regards to the classical tariqas, they need more historical attention. It was not all fable;many were simply tied to brute power (Muguls are one of many famous examples). Even Ann Marry Schimmel’s work is puzzled at the wealth these tariqas acquired.
Finally, the increasing admiration for the Salafyyah, while not without problems (the Salafiyys, despite Schwartz’s interesting polemic, are not all on identical paths) is best seen in the fate of the scholars.
Two great Hanbali scholars (Ahmad Hanbal and Ibn Taymiyyah, radiallauhuma)were at war with the Sultan. The former cried when his son accepted the role as Qadi in Abbassi Baghdad.
By contrast, the Imam Gazali (radiallahu ‘anhu) rose at the heart of power and was, from early youth, patronised by the dawla (ie State).
If you think of the class points in Umar Lee’s original post, then you may perhaps accept the reason for the concern with modern day Sufis.
Journey into Islam: The Crisis of Globalization”, a few months ago where Nuh Keller was asked about the Deobandis and he called them, “Salafi burnout”. I don’t know what context this statement was made, but this is a serious charge.
Do you have the exact quote?
@Jami: “Any one concerned with social equality and the importance of the word ‘adl will sense that the atmosphere in places where zikr take place are hierarchical and oddly ‘elitist’.”
Salams,
How do you define elitist and what is wrong with hierarchy? Clearly there is a hierarchy in most turuq, but I fail to understand the problem with it as long as there is no violation of the Shari’a.
Islam is inherently elitist anyway. Its basic tenet- that muslims are the “best of mankind” and entitled and obliged to rule the others for their benefit- is an assumption of aristocracy {rule bt the best, remember) with muslims defined as the best. The only debate here is over which are the best of the best.
@Thersites,
I think you’ve got Islam confused with Judaism mate.
No, Hanaan. In fact, in the torah- essentially the christian Old Testament- god spends much of his time lamenting the low moral standard of the jews and saying they are going to be punished for it. A jewish friend of mine suggested that a better translation wouldn’t be “the chosen people” but “the picked-on people”. God certainly doesn’t do them any favours or give them any leeway. It’s the quran that tells people they are the best of mankind, to take their message to the rest of the world by any means necessary, to kill those who resist and make slaves of their womenfolk, to dominate them and to tolerate- on a limited basis- those who persist in following inferior messgaes if they submit- and pay tax- “with humiliation”. How important those aspects are varies according to which interpretation of the quran and islam people follow, but they’re the aspects that the “straight-up killers” Umar Lee referred to would be attracted to and emphasise and- especially in the early days of islam- they were the people doing most of the spreading.
Perhaps these tariqas are helpful for some people, however there is alot of ongoing complications and red flags that always occur when a man is put up on a pedestal. Shaikh Nuh has a great deal of knowledge and is an excellent translator of books, however that does not make him a perfect being or one whos actions and words should be followed without question or mindful reflection. He has made many many mistakes, he is NOT a friendly person except when it suits him. He often bickers with other scholars and mocks them in his lectures (anyone recall when an equally knowledgable scholar from the US came to London and Shaykh Nuh didnt even have the courtesy to invite him up out of the crowd?)
Yes, it is a fact that there is a very high proportion of divorces coming out of Karebshah and among murids. When one loses the ability to think for yourself and believe that it is blasphemy to not follow his every word, they look down on other Muslims, even their family members as lesser Muslims. It is a fact that Shaykh Nuh has told many people that he has done istikhara and then demands that they do not marry a certain person, or do not reconcile with a spouse. It is also a fact, that if you have a lot of money (cash is preferred) you will receive a special meeting with the Shaykh and be welcomed to come live in his town, where he acts as the dictator and all-knower.
Scholars who put themselves on a pedestal or allow their followers to, will only fall very very hard, when people realize that their egos have got the best of them. They are human like everyone else and can not play with the lives of their followers.
@thersites,
“In fact, in the torah- essentially the christian Old Testament”
Oh, I get it now, this is just more propaganda on your part, isn’t it? and I thought you’d just made an error. The Torah? That’s not the Jewish holy book, that’s would be the Talmud. And what does the Talmud say about Jesus and his mother Mary? Care to repeat that? Please take your propaganda elsewhere.
Ever heard of the Chief Rabbinate? Isn’t their entire writing geared towards why Jews as God’s chosen people are superior to the Goys and how the ethnic cleansing and oppression of “others” is a duty under Judaism in order to fulfil the covenant? Just the other week, the Chief Rabbi issued a pamphlet to the terrorist Israeli army declaring that under their religion, everything, including children, women and even animals must be destroyed, that only stupid gentiles make a distinction between combatants and civilians -you can read all about it in the independent paper.
Islam, unlike your religion (Judaism) makes a clear distinction between combatants and vicilians and makes it unlawful to harm women and children regardless of their religion.
And if all you know about Judaism is what “your friend” tells you, then clearly you’re not in a position to do a comparative analysis of Islam and Judaism and have no business posting ignorant inferences based on deceitful premises on people’s blogs.
Don’t you people ever tire of your stupid propaganda even when the internet has exposed your lies? You had to come here and bulldoze a thread that had nothing to do with anyone but Muslims. To you, any avenue is suitable vehicle for your Zionist propaganda, you should be ashamed of yourself.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
lateefa: are you the same person who commented anonymously on Umar’s blog, with very similar accusations?
Your observations on the shaikh’s personality are unfair. I’ve met him a few times myself, most recently in 2002 if I remember rightly, and I did not find him high-handed or arrogant. Perhaps he is not outgoing, but not everyone is and it’s not a requirement in the Shari’ah.
If you find that he mocked other scholars, you might give evidence, i.e. specific incidents, not just a general accusation, because that is very serious. As for not inviting another shaikh up onto the platform, perhaps he had gone to hear, not to speak. It’s not like a rock gig where one of the ‘greats’ would invite one of the ‘greaters’ up onto the stage if he saw him in the crowd.
I can’t answer your claims regarding Kharabsheh because I’ve not been there, but what I do know is what I’ve heard him say on tape. Where a couple’s marital difficulties are getting in the way of their learning or progress, or other people’s, then divorce may be the only way to fix the problems. Also, in normal Muslim society, young people do not make decisions about marriage alone; they seek advice from elders and friends and, yes, istikhara, so if the shaikh is the nearest thing they have to an elder, his word may well influence what decisions they make about marriage.
Indigo Jo,
You stated: “I can’t answer your claims regarding Kharabsheh because I’ve not been there, but what I do know is what I’ve heard him say on tape. Where a couple’s marital difficulties are getting in the way of their learning or progress, or other people’s, then divorce may be the only way to fix the problems.” So youre saying Shaykh Nuh thinks it is okay to make the THRONE OF ALLAH tremble (as occurs in divorce) and to please all the shayateen the most (as occurs in divorce)?
Yes, that is exactly what Shaykh Nuh thinks and that is what he and his other learned scholars do. Almost 100% of couples have some marital problems in the first year or so that will get in the way of not only their studies, but their life. Thats why its called a test and thats why the marriage is half the deen - BECAUSE ITS HARD WORK. Shaykh Nuh gives people who dont want to work hard and find an excuse to leave their wife or husband (yes the woman mureeds are doing it too) high and dry - all in the name of Islam and studying spirituality.
Warning if you have marriage problems (as just about everyone does at some time or another, for whatever reason) DO NOT GO TO THESE ARROGANT, COLD HEARTED PEOPLE FOR HELP, YOU WILL LIKELY END UP IN DIVORCE AND ON YOUR SECOND OR THIRD MARRIAGE. that is a fact. someone should really take a tally among all these mureeds…..
First of all, there are legitimate problems with tariqas and sheikhs. However Umar Lee’s approach is not the best way to deal with this and actually causes more confusion. And Indigo Jos response doesnt help either. This issue is too complicated to deal with like this. The followers that have been affected and are, are real people who these scholars DO NOT CARE ABOUT. As for Sh Nuh mocking other scholars, lets see where should i begin, he has problems with sh hamza, problems with sh yacoubi, problems with shaykh abdullah bin bayyah. and he regularly pronounces wahabis, salafis 9he likes labels) as not muslim.
Just as you confirmed that he promotes divorce, im sure you can find several quotes about these from all the lectures. And like that quote you probably wont even notice how much is wrong with it. As for the sholar that i saw being treated like he was not an equal. that would have been ok except the scholar traveled a long way and it was not respectful to not even acknowledge him. it is called being humble and modest, indigo jo, please dont use comparisons to a rock concert.
i want to add that i just read a few of umar lee’s posts and i do not agree with everything he writes. his referece to the sahaba as ‘straight up killers’ is atrocious. unfortunately the issue of tariqas and shaykhs going on an ego trip and ruining lives is very very serious and very real. i hope that someone can deal with the issue in a real and mature way, doing it umar lee style will only make it lose credibilty. i hope that someone will start a better way to deal with these issues. go to shaam and amman and you will see that many of the accusations are based in fact. It is a fact that sh yacoubis top murids left him because of how he treated certain women. the woman he married, her life is ruined. that is a fact. it is a fact that sh nuh has ruined lives as well. divorce is almost never a solution yet he and his people make it a constant solution.it is a fact that people have left kharabshah with nothing, lost everything after being told to live there for up to 10 years. and they still have no idea why. people should also find out why sh nuh is not invited to attend deen intensives anymore.
Judaism is not my religion, Hanaan. My religion is that of wise men. The torah are the first five books of the Old Tetament- the Pentateuch- the basis for all jewish law and- by extension- all ancient jewish religious and historical texts. The talmud are rabbinical discussions and exegeses of these texts and are specifically man-made, even in the eyes of their followers. Certainly i have heard of the Chief Rabbinate; in fact I have heard of dozens of Chief Rabbinates. What any one of them says need not affect the opinions of other Chief Rabbinates. Which one are you talking about? This thread did not have nothing to do with anyone but Muslims. After all, muslims claim the right to decide what god wants other people to do and the right- when they can- to make them do it, so, unfortunately, what muslims think has a lot do do with everyone else. I specifically pointed out that elitism is the basis of islam- “Islam is inherently elitist anyway. Its basic tenet- that muslims are the “best of mankind” and entitled and obliged to rule the others for their benefit- is an assumption of aristocracy {rule by the best, remember) with muslims defined as the best. The only debate here is over which are the best of the best.”- which people had tended not to notice in this discussion, though it is an important aspect of the debate about class, hierarchy and elitism in islam. and later to point out that the quran can be and was interpreted in ways that appeal to the “straight-up killers” was as valid as any other. Perhaps you would care to deal with these questions rather than revealing your ignorance of other matters, if you can.
As-Salamu `alaikum,
I maybe be a bit confused here but, Lateefa, you stating something is a FACT does not make it so. I have met with Shaykh Nuh as well as Shaykh Ya
qoubi hafidhahumma Allah and I have not seen what you have seen. Facts are semething that can be verified. How can anyone verify what you say? Like I said on Umar Lees' blog, my wife is from Philly. Her whole family lives there. I have many connections there. State names, times, etc to prove what you are saying. If not, all you are doing is namima. It is one of the kabair. The time I spent with both the Shayukh has shown me that what you say is the total opposite of how they are. Can you name 3 top murideen that left SHaykh Yaqoubi? I hope you don't say it is private because you have made this allegation in a public arena. The onus is on you to provide proof to your dangerous claims. Also, you said Shaykh Nuh mocks scholars and then went on to say he has problems with Shaykh Hamza, Shaykh Yaqoubi, Shaykh Bin Bayyah. Having problems with someone and mocking them are 2 totally different things. Which is it? You are not even presenting your case in a coherent way. Provide one lecture that I can listen to where he "mocks" anyone. I can not believe it is so easy for you to type what you typed knowing Allahaza wa jal is watching you. Last thing, I am not murid of Shaykh Nuh or Shaykh Muhammad.Ma Tawfeeqi ila Billah.
Assalamu alaikum, Mahmoud in the comment above, said it best, it’s not a “fact” just because someone says it is. No one, as of yet, has given any hard, substantial proof for what they’re saying, just bits and pieces of info, hearsay, inuendo, etc. If you’re going to come out iwth someone, just come all the way out with it, I’ve never liked half-stories, and then been told to “find out yourslef” when trying to get the other half of the story.
Unless anyone can offer some hard evidence for what they’re saying, all I can do is take it for what it is, people talking about what they don’t know, slandering, and backbitign scholars that they are having a problem with at the moment.
Indigo Jo, with all due respect, you haven’t lived in Kharabsha and have no idea what happens there. Therefore, you can’t possibly comment on the social constitution there. I agree with Lateefa 100% about the marriage dramas in the Hayy. I’ve lived there and know what’s up. The Murids in Kharabsha(or Kharbansha) are the coldest I have ever met. Many of them are, what we would call social misfits in their own societies, conviently finding a refuge in Kharabsha. I can go on and on but would limit myself to couple of points, and let someone prove me wrong:
1) There is no ruhani nisba to the Prophet(saw) and Ahlul Bait whatsoever in this place. People want to get fana in Allah without going through the Prophet. Please spare me “but what about Dalail Khairat”?
2) Has anyone ever had a drink of water with Sheikh Nuh? What happened to the hadith “those who don’t provide hospitality are not of us.” Unless you are some big shot.
3) Yes, other scholars are mocked and looked upon as lacking “true suluk”. Once Habib Umar came to their place and they played a recording of Sheikh Nuh(since he was not there) while Habib Umar was in the gathering!!!
It’s so true that at the top of the list of what has damaged Islam in our times is the Wahhabi movement and Sufi claimers.
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
Is there anyone with something to say about Shaikh Nuh and his immediate circle who is actually willing to give us (or even me) their name? So far, we have heard all kinds of non-specifics but nobody willing to stand up and be counted. You have nothing to be afraid of - except your akhira, if you are lying or you make pointless personal slanders - because if some of these claims are true then the public need to be warned, and the students I have come across are the least likely to be violent and have dealt with attacks on the shaikh and his whole tariqa for years. So, unless you can substantiate your claims with actual names, dates, places and times, your claims really count for nothing.
Assalamu alaikum, I’ll try to recreate what I said on Umar’s blog, for anyone that’s not been over there. I don’t know what is going on with this shaykh or this particular tariqa, although I have heard people, in private conversations, talk of this murids of Shykh Nuh as being “cultish”. now I don’t know if this is true, or not, it may or may not be. However, I am pretty cautious about taking things at face value, especially by peopel posting annonymously, or people I don’t know. It would be different if someone I knew said something, i.e., if it was someoen that I knew and someone that I knew to be a trustworthy person, and ot someone who was backbiting just ot be backbiting. If some of this stuff I’ve heard on this blog and on Umar’s blog were true, I’d be truly saddened to hear it! However, for me, I’d have to have more “proof” than a bunch of annonymous commentors on a blog, who are either of a Salafi persuasion, or who were former, now seemingly disgruntled, (rightly or wrongly) murids. As far as what’s going on in Karabsheh? I wonder if what’s going on in Karabsheh might be different from what’s going on with murids in other places?
Anyway, I’ve been hearing some rumblings int he past few weeks about “stuff going on”, however, when I’ve attempted to ask, I get a half story, and then I’m just expected to know, and if I say that I’m not sure I’m going to buy it hook, line, and sinker, I’ve been told I’m naive. Now, if you don’t say what “scholars” your’e talking about, or if you say them but you won’t tell the whole story, how do you expect people to believe you? No matter how much the story may or may not be true? How would anyone expect peopel to bleieve them if the people doing the inquring are told to “investigate for themsleves”? Why should I do this when it’s not my tariqa?
If Shaykh Nuh, and others, have such a hold on people that they’re afraid to come forward? That is pretty scary, but how do we know this, if outlets aren’t made for people to give the whole story? And who is this coming out now, with the catalyst being the blog of someone who calls our Prophet and his companions “striahgt up killers”, and makes fun of some schoalrs who’ve tried to seek knowledge, if they’re not following hte same methodlology as him?
It would be one thing if someone just put up a blog and said “hey people need to know this”. But to bring it up in the context it was brought up, it just seems convenient to me. And how long has this been gong on, if it’s been going on for a while, why has no one said anything about it?
I think my stance at this point is that it’s not that I dont” believe it, I just don’t feel I have enough info in my own mind, to say, hey, I’d relay this “news” to someone else, as the Qur’an tells us that we must investigate the news, to ascertaint he truth of it, before spreading it to others, lest we may be unknowingly say something false, and then I’m also held accountable for that.
Salaam Ginny, I hear what youre saying. Youre right, this is not the correct forum or catalyst for this discussion. I actually had not read Umar Lees blog before or Saads comments on the other site. However, I googled Sh Nuh and cult, because I neednt answers and unfortunately this is the only place that anything can even be questioned, without it being instantly removed or not posted. Ive tried. I state my claims as facts because I have proof or for things such as mocking scholars, I heard it firsthand. I jsut dont know how to tell people everything.
I dont agree with spreading things all over the net. And there is alot more I could say about Sh Nuh and which I have proof of what he communicated to me. The scholar that I saw being treated as if he was not an equal at least, was Imam Zaid at a London suhba. The situation with Sh Yacoubi I would not have believed if I didnt hear it from several friends who were there and witness it.
So yes, there are facts, but its difficult to convey them in this type of forum. Perhaps Saad should make a site, where people can come forward with dates, names etc if they wish to. Peoples marriages, money, imaan have been damaged or lost completely and Sh Nuh is directly involved.
Al-Ash’ari, here is the exact quote and I’ve included the whole paragraph to provide context: “Sheikh Nuh Keller is an unlikey Sufi master with an American background - he left the United States three decades ago and while travelling in Cairo discovered Islam - but his following is strong within the Arab world. His conversation with me was largely about the ruh, the soul, which has a beginning but no end. To him the Prophet of Islam is the ultimate standard of human behaviour, which raises the position of Muslims above that of others and makes Islam a superior religion. The best way to persuade people to follow the standard is not through press releases but by example. The sheik was dismissive of the traditional religious clerics of the Deoband model, whom he called Salafi. He described them as “hairy mullahs”, in reference to the more extravagant expressions of facial hair preferred by some religious clerics; he himself had a well-trimmed beard. Sheik Keller was clearly troubled by what he viewed as their close-minded and bad-tempered tendencies: “Something is the matter with them. They emphasize the body and rhetoric of faith but miss out on the ruh”. It is a “Salafi burnout”. first paragraph, pg. 181, Journey into Islam, the Crisis of Globalization by Akbar Ahmed.
The author mentions on pg. 34-35,: “Throughout this book, I use the word “Ajmer” to refer to all those Muslims inspired by the Sufi and mystical tradition within Islam. I use “Deoband” to refer to all mainstream Islamic movements - whether the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia or the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas in the Middle East - that have a deep affinity with its position. In other terms, Deoband is a generic term for Islamic movements based in orthodox Islam that consciously trace their worldview mainstream Islamic tradtion and thought.”
So Nuh Keller might not have been specifically referring to Deobandis based on the second paragraph, though it’s hard to tell. Still, to describe your opponents as “hairy mullahs” using the cliches of the enemies of Islaam, engaging in mujamalah with a liberal “Muslim” such as Ahmed, or calling them “Salafi burnout” is ridiculous. As for his statement that Salafis don’t emphasize the spiritual aspects of the deen, then this is another Sufi cliche. Yes, there are Salafis like this such as some of the laymen in the West, but there are also Salafis who speak, write and lecture about zuhd, tazkiyyat an-nafs and matters of the heart. Bro. Al-Ash’ari, can I have your email contact?
Brother Yusuf, this is insanity. I got to speak with someone who has been in Kherebshah for a total of two years, several months at a time and she gave me a well rounded reality of the life there. There is clearly twisting of words and following of ego within these people’s complaints. For people to bash the Sheikh for advice he gave them after THEY themselves sought it only shows us that these people are being unfair and are truly blinded by their ego on many levels. Expose who you are and stop throwing cheap shots for us wanting to know who you are.
May Allah Subhanahu wa ta’ala guide us all to speak the truth without biases. Aameen
Mastur recieved a response from me-as is the adab of our deen-but for some reason it was refused.
Of course, these are serious accusations about Shaikh Nur. Posting them ‘Anonymously’ may not help the followers of the Shaikh- or meet the evidential laws of the shariah.
But how else can the sister(s) reveal those personal matters? Even if true, they are unlikely to be believed. Ms Ginny et al., have spoken unkindly abt ‘Salafis’but admits that she has heard ‘rumours’ abt ‘cultish’ mentalities.
When can a rumour become a fact? Some facts must be, esp if the cultish claim can be reasonably inferred, circumstantial.
Without hurting ppls feelings, the relatioship of Shaikh and Murid is one of intimacy and often, spiritually, dependency. In any of these relationships, even within the abusive salafi circles,there can be duress placed on individuals.
If in secualr law, a conceptual apparatus exists to detect such abuses, there certainly must be one in a sacred law.In Islam, there is. But its Quranic & remindful: “Alaysallaahu bi-kaafin abadah…?” (S:39-36).
It is a simple verse. But it is deep and offers answers. If we accept that among certain groups a cult trend exist, then claims about ‘abuse’ should be dealt with sensitively. Yet it is hard to see a movement who have “dealt with attacks for years” listening to these current claims.
Umm Layth - you have never lived in k-town, you have been a murid for what? a year? you know nothing. get back to me when you move to k-town for at least 3 to 5 years, you lose thousands of dollars or everything, follow the shaykh and hedaya when they tell your husband that he deserves a better wife than you (or vice versa), and dont cry when you find out that your husband has a secret second wife because shaykh nuh told him he could. youre a good murida after all arent you?
i hope your husband never changes a diaper or helps you with the kids or housework, because that would be demasculinating him as shaykh nuh told us in a suhba in 2007. no often his advice or orders is not what people ask, they did not join a tariqa for someone to run their personal and financial affairs for them - and these are only some examples of what happens to many people - not all, but many.
As salamu `alaykum,
Cultish mentalities exist in all groups and all collectivities. It is human nature. For God’s sake, who was more cultish than some of Shaykh Hamza’s students in the late 90’s? But that was not Shaykh Hamza’s fault. In every edition of Tariqa Notes that Shaykh Nuh has produced, he has included a segment on the machinations of the nafs in relation to group-think. “The Inner Circle” was mandatory reading. People are still people and they come to a shaykh because they are admitting that they need help. I believe on Umar Lee’s blog, several people mentioned that Shaykh Nuh’s British murids are a lot different than the American and Canadians ones? Has anyone ever stopped to consider that maybe that is because the British in general are much more friendly and warm and Americans by their very culture tend to be stand offish and cold towards unknowns, especially those from large Northern and Eastern cities? Is Shaykh Nuh going to be blamed for everything his murids may do? Especially when the bulk of them are people who took his hand at a suhba and are only physically in his company once or twice a year?
I know a couple of people who were advised to get divorced by Shaykh Nuh, Umm Khayr or Sidi Ashraf. One, a few months after getting married, found that his wife took off her hijab, manifested a hatred for Muslim men and did every single thing she could to be defiant towards her husband. Another married a sister in college, who wanted to spend no time with him and made every excuse she could not to be with him when she was available. This brother left his own home and moved nearer to her college and she finally admitted that she was not ready to be a wife. Another found out that his wife had cheated and was five months pregnant by another man. I’ve only seen a handful of people get divorced and never has it been a willy nilly thing. Like Umm Layth said, if someone asked Shaykh Nuh for advice and he gave them an answer which angered them, they didn’t want advice, they wanted a “yes” and got pissed off when he gave them something different.
Every murid in the circle which I am apart of, apart from the above examples, are and have been married for a long long time. Shaykh Nuh does not spontaneously tell people to get divorced because the moon was a little red yesterday.
Shaykh Nuh has “rules” to marriage, rules which are based upon the Qur’an, Sunnah and time tested traditional family values, the combination of which makes for a happy home and happy akhira. When those rules are not in place because one party is unwilling to get with the program, then it is time for people to move on. Its not about peoples feelings, but what is best for one’s ultimate destination. If that pisses the other party of, then that is understandable. But the whole marriage/divorce issue is being made out to be something it is not.
It is quite odd that this is the claim when the very first criticism that I ever heard about Shaykh Nuh from a former murid was that unlike other Shadhili shaykhs, he makes divorce like it is haram. The first time I ever heard Shaykh Nuh speak live, the one thing that has always stuck with me was an answer he gave in response to someone who was complaining about their wife. In more words, he basically said that everyone has a nafs and when you put two nafs in a home together, things are going to be shaky for a little while. Whoever claims that Shaykh Nuh advises people to get divorced at the first signs of trouble, has lied or possibly misinterpreted their own situation. People have nufus and how many of those disgruntle ex-murids and ex-spouses acknowledge what they did in the relationship?
I know people several people, married, who have moved to Kharabsheh and have lived there for extensive periods of time. Most of my dear friends in fact have moved a lot closer to Kharabhsheh and visit quite regularly. One has been there the past four years. Is Kharabhsheh a utopia, no. People have nufus and there are people in Kharabhsheh. But the problems which exists there are not Shaykh Nuh’s fault. Shaykh Nuh generally does not even want permanent residents. All he usually asks of us is for us to come visit when we need it, do what we can while we are there and take back what we learned with us. And more importantly, he constantly states that “Those least in need of the shaykh are his neighbors and his wife.”
Shaykh Nuh’s method of tarbiyah takes himma and personal effort. If someone was there for 10 years, regularly missed lessons, missed the hadra, did not take advantage of the situation and went back home broke, why is that Shaykh Nuh’s fault. Is he supposed to blow wilaya into them? When one of my dear friends moved them and came back after two years, we talked about the situation. He identified problems, but stated that the things that were wrong at are upon the hands of those who are guilty of them. And he said himself that many of the people who had taken up residence were not doing things like they should. Those who visited for a short amount of time and left, typically did better. When he is made aware of problems, he addresses them. And for someone to claim that only those with cash have access to Shaykh Nuh, they are telling an outright lie.
What is seems to me is that some people are disgruntled, some people have waswasa in their heart and some people are non-murids who have an issue with Sufism and interpret everything that they see in a manner which is unbefitting of the shari`ah.
In terms of Shaykh Nuh’s writing style, he is generally very blunt anyway and has an American writer’s sarcasm, often without realizing it. One of my friends and teachers helped him edit Port in the Storm and he told me that there was a lot of stuff that he advised Shaykh Nuh to take out because it was just too harsh for comfort, even though it was completely true. But more importantly, it would seem that none of the words quoted about the “hairy mullahs” were the words of Shaykh Nuh, but the summary of the author. From what I know based on what he has said, he was more than likely talking about the Arab Salafis, particularly the students of Shaykh Nasrideen (Allah have mercy upon him) in Jordan who are known for keeping unkempt beards. Deobandi is a word that the author himself used as an umbrella term, and Shaykh Nuh is clearly quoted as referring to the Salafis. Shaykh Nuh doesn’t call Deobandis Salafis, he calls them Deobandis. Anyone who describes Shaykh Nuh’s beard as well trimmed is stretching a bit, so the authors words need further clarification.
It seems that Shaykh Nuh is continually being criticized of late by means of second hand information and anonymous exposes, yet he has 100s of hours of lectures that are available to the murids, including ex-murids who undoubtably had the material on their harddrives. So why is it that we are expected to settle for rumors and one-sided opinions?
As-Salamu `alaikum,
To be honest, I have heard there was a “problem” between Shaykh Nuh hafidhahu Allah and Moulay Shaykh Muhammad Al-Ya`qoubi hafidahu Allah. It is a rumor and what has been stated here is also a rumor. Until you provide proof, it will stay as slander and slander of the Awliyah Allah at that.
Salam alaikum,
Brother Patrice, that response is detailed and essential. Post it, please, on Umar’s site.
It may set the record straight and minimise the ‘hizby’ mentality which has unfortunately side lined the serious and forceful original RAND Post.
UmmAnonymous:
“i hope your husband never changes a diaper or helps you with the kids or housework, because that would be demasculinating him as shaykh nuh told us in a suhba in 2007.”
Finally a reference…. Which suhba was that?
“Has anyone ever stopped to consider that maybe that is because the British in general are much more friendly and warm and Americans by their very culture tend to be stand offish and cold towards unknowns,” You’ve got that the wrong way round, surely, Patrice Saunders. The British were- and are- infamously uninterested in other people. That is the whole basis of British toleration.
As salamu `alaykum,
Jami: With all due respect, I am not contributing a site in which Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is referred to as a faggot and metrosexual without any moderation by the owner of the blog. Such a person is not interested in discussion. May Allah forgive him and everyone else who have done nothing but give away all their hasanat to the people they seem to hate so much.
Finally something actually warrants your concern. That is a sentiment repeated for years and years in Kharabsha and also mentioned in the suhbas in Orlando and Toronto in 2007.
Umm Anyonymous, what did he say in the Orlando suhba of 07 or the Toronto Suhba exactly. These suhbas are not up yet although I may be able to get in touch with some people who can send me the cd’s (which I didnt buy at the suhba this year). I was there in the 07 Suhba in Orlando so surely you can help me remember since apparently I missed something. : )
@lateefa:
2 quotes from you:
“It is a fact that sh yacoubis top murids left him because of how he treated certain women. the woman he married, her life is ruined. that is a fact.”
“The situation with Sh Yacoubi I would not have believed if I didnt hear it from several friends who were there and witness it.”
just incase you were not aware, sh. muhammad’s top murids are scholars, not the new phenomenon of young men who have studied for about 6-7 years that you are referring to. i’m not doubting that they are knowledgable brothers, but lets talk about real scholars please, and real ‘top murids’!!
your comments actually prove to me, like all the others who are commenting on this issue, that they have little or no knowledge of the issues. Shaykh Faisal Abdur-Razak from Canada is a scholar, and a murid of Shaykh Muhamammad. He is someone i would class as ‘top murid’. your reference to these people as ‘top murideen’ is just laughable, and shows you know nothing of the murids in other parts of the world.
as for the second quote above, since when has “hearing it from several friends who were there are witnessed it” been a proof of correctness? whats stopping these people from colluding? is this a shari’a evidence that would be accepted in a court: “my friends were there and witnessed it”. in addition the statement is further proof to me that you have no knowledge of what happened.
subhanallah, all these people who go and study abroad, suddenly become ‘scholars’ and ‘shaykhs’ and then write all over internet forums like they are upholders of the shari’a! Allah help us!
As salamu `alaykum,
UmmAnonymous: Finally something warrants our concern? Rather, finally we get something that is able to be substantiated or denied as a defensible or mistaken accusation…I also was at the Orlando suhba of January 2008 (in 2007, it the suhba was held in Virginia), and I do not recall such a thing being said. Could you please provide some sort of context or way in which we could narrow down the statement in question? Sorting through six hours of recording is a little time consuming.
UmmLayth: The Canadian subha is not up - none of them are actually - but the Orlando 2008 suhba is on the website for paid subscribers.
wa alaykum as salam
Patrice, yes, I got my years wrong. I was at the 08 Suhba in Orlando as well as the 09. My husband attended the Suhba in Virginia in 07 as well.
Patrice, Its funny how all those divorces you know of were caused by women. Every single one. Yes, thats what happens the women are blamed and called unstable etc.
And why is that you know all those lurid details? Perhaps because there is no such thing as confidentiality in K-town or among murids either (have you been to Kharabsha?)
Just double checked with attendees, that comment about men not changing diapers etc was made in Toronto 2008 and in London 2007 as well as countless times in K.
Assalamu alaikum, I’ve been asked not to comment any further on this issue, and I intend to hold to that. If I could go back and delte the comments on Umar’s blog, I’d do it. I have no idea what’s going on, which pretty much seems to be the story of my life, everyone else around me seems to know the deal, and as a result, I end up constantly sticking my foot in my mouth. This again brings up the idea that I toy with from time to time, that perhaps I should disengage from the net altogether, or at least should cut back my internet time substantially.
Allah alone knows the truth, and I’ll just leave it at that.
Assalamu alaikum, and Inshallah, I’ve not offended anyone or hurt anyone, my intention was merely to ascertain the truth, which is not forthcoming and perhaps it’s not for me to know and I should leave it alone.
Assalamu alaikum.
UmmAnonymous: “Its funny how all those divorces you know of were caused by women.”
I’m sorry, I try not to make it a habit of keeping the intimate company of women. I don’t go to sleepovers and attend henna parties to yuk it up with the ladies. Those examples that I know of are friends of mine that I’ve shared the companionship of for the past 5 years, that is why I know the lurid details, because each of them came to me for advice or seeking fatwas through me and solace when it was all over.
I have been to every American suhba since 2002, minus one, had a near full collection of the Darqawi letters on tape and have full access to the Latifiyya majalis recordings, which includes a year of weekly lectures. Alhumdulillah, if it was London and not Orlando, the UK 2007 suhba is also available for download. So could you please provide some sort of context, morning or evening, first, second, or third day, anything, so that we can listen for ourselves instead of relying upon memory, which tends to leave nuances and context out?
There are obviously a lot of issues with Shk Nuh’s tariqa that only people on the inside know about. Otherwise why would his oldest friends and murids leave him?
The man who introduced Shk Nuh to the tariqa left him, after 25 years of being by his side.
The man who was the closest to being Shk Nuh’s ‘khalifa’ left him. This man used to be in charge whenever Shk Nuh was not in Jordan.
The man who taught the murids how to properly perform the Hadra and who taught Shk Nuh how to properly perform the Hadra. A man Shk Nuh used to speak highly about, he also left.
Those are just three major figures that left Shk Nuh from amongst many.
Sheikh Nuh’s tariqa was once valid,I truly believe it was, but today it’s hardly anything beyond a cult.
Shk Nuh’s expanding list of new murids are nothing but useless numbers. He doesn’t know them, doesn’t deal with them, and has absolutely no connection with them. He’s just building up a following.
wa salam
Sketch:
Who are you talking about?
Names, please. I have heard a lot of accusations but not a single specific example.
I am fed up of seeing anonymous and unspecific crap being peddled about our shaikh and our tariqa.
If you have anything to say to back up your claims, email me if you do not wish to publish it: indigojo at this blog’s sitename minus the www. Otherwise, I will assume that you are a coward and a liar, spreading falsehoods to damage someone you dislike for sectarian reasons.
Patrice, how can you be so sure that Keller isn’t the one saying “hairy mullahs” or that he is just directing them towards Salafi shuyookh? The author did put the quote in quotation marks. The students of Albani aren’t the only ones who have unkempt beards in Jordan.
@Sketch
May I ask, what caused Shaikh Nuh’s tariqa to go from being valid to being invalid? Also, im just curious, what silsila do you consider valid? What Shaykh has what Shaykh Nuh’s tariqa used to have?
Indigo Jo
If you don’t know who any of those men are, then you obviously haven’t gotten into the Jordan scene at all.
And if you haven’t gotten into the Jordan scene, you don’t know jack about Sh Nuh’s tariqa and what goes on over there.
Beyond the murids and former murids, even the local Jordanians can’t stand Sh Nuh and his followers.
and
Many cannot stand Shaykh Nuh, especially westernised modernist “Muslims”. Or what of the pseudo-salafis, considering they have spread like wildfire in Jordan!? I certainly know they can not “stand” him. So who is left I wonder?
Shaykh Nuh Salman certainly “stands” him, loves him, and praises his efforts for Islam. Shaykh Amjad Rasheed, head of the dept. of Islamic Law at Ahqaf Univ. in Tarim, is Shaykh Nuh’s murid and has praised the man immensely for what he sees of him. What of Shaykh Iyad al-Ghawj and Shaykh Ahmad Snobar, both Mureeds of Shaykh Nuh, and praise him immensely! Shaykh Faraz Rabbani, a capable Hanafi ‘alim, thinks very highly of Shaykh and has been his mureed for over 13 years - while having lived in Jordan for some time!
People leave for their own reasons. It is part of being human and part of having independent thought. No one is obliged to stay in the tariqah, and no one who leaves affects the tariqah either. Like Shaykh Nuh said, I will continue on even with one mureed or with no mureeds. It makes no difference to him.
Shaykh Nuh is not in the business of giving personal life advice. He gives general suggestions in his classes and Suhbas, but he does not like getting into people’s personal affairs, that is why Umm Sahl etc are dealing with the marital issues, and I believe apply. Furthermore, it is not even obligatory to go to them for marital issues. If people do not want Shaykh Nuh involved in their lives, leave him out of them lol. It is really that simple.
What I have seen in the many comments hounding Shaykh Nuh, is personal vendettas and smear campaigns that remind me much of the madkhali-pseudo-salafi days. Not only are most of these claims unfounded, but they are a “spin” by the perception of the people involved.
When I read exaggerated comments like:
One only wonders what “toleration” and its opposite is to these people. Who are these people anyhow? I have sat through maybe a hundred lectures by Shaykh Nuh, and I will be the first to admit they are intolerant! When are they intolerant? When it comes to what can not be tolerated: bida’ah, haraam, munkar, fisq, fasad etc. As for his “toleration”, then Shaykh Nuh makes it very clear that his mureeds are to respect EVERYONE for it may be their state will be better than ours.
There have been attacks on Shaykh Nuh’s mureeds here and there the last few days, and I must say that I have had no negative experiences, as most mureeds, with any of the people who associate with Shaykh Nuh. This leads me to wonder what the haal of these people who make these claims are? Obviously if they have to come on the interent and spread their dirty laundry, give their biased views, without bringing the full context into the matter, their haal is screwed up! Their suluk obviously failed not because Shaykh Nuh failed them, but because they failed in the tariqah. They are disgruntled because they could not attain - and yes it is hard - the objective. Probably because they were to worried about their world rather than their aakhirah - and that is what is apparent by their sick comments.
People that are sick in the heart - people like me, are those who come to the tariqah. They are not angels, and they are certainly not of highest saints - though they can become of them through mujahada and the principles laid forth by the tariqah. They are human beings, who are striving to tread a path of servitude to Allah ta’ala. A good friend of mine who is from kharabsheh, whose father is a salafi Shaykh in ‘Amman - he is from the Al-Awaisheh family, went to my first Suhba with Shaykh Nuh with me in Virginia. He has continued to go to three more, and after each one, declares that his experiences are far superior to any has ever had. He praises the mureeds, loves the methods and the strictness of Shaykh Nuh, and asks me always - “when is the next suhbah!?”
The point here is, each person has their own reality - it is a reality they build upon their own life experiences. They will judge everything else based upon those “Realities” , and thus, it really does not matter what “they” experienced but what YOU experienced. I now know maybe 300 mureeds, all of whom love the tariqah, love Shaykh Nuh, and are good people - not perfect - who seek Allah as best they can. They do not care for the mundane, and most -unlike myself- would not even be stupid enough to read these comments posted by blank “whos” and childish backbiters and slanderers.
So here is me, lacking Abul Layth, disobeying Shaykh Nuh, by saying that I have no toleration or respect for stupid trash comments made by idiots who have nothing better to do than create a soap opera for the Muslim world to watch. Your attacks are clearly unwarranted and quite frankly, ridiculous. Most of you sound like little children whining about the boogey man or whining because you did not GET YOUR WAY.
Most of you, just like me, have little knowledge about Islam, and certainly did not spend 15 years of your life studying the intense sciences of Islam. What have you done? Nothing! What has Shaykh Nuh done? Changed lives, brought people to Allah, and still leads them to Allah on a daily basis. He is, in my opinion, one of the few awliya’ I have ever met. And if it is true that he is, as has been attested to by even people who do not believe in his methods, then those who are attacking him are attacking a wali - and such is war on Allah! But from what I see, such people care more for their own nafs than care for their Lord. If they did care for their Lord more, they sure as heck wouldn’t be spending their “precious” time backbiting a man who is certainly not perfect, but has achieved a whole lot more than what they have.
Was-Salam, Abul Layth
@ Abu Layth
Most of us don’t know Islam? Speak for yourself guy, I spent over 10 years studying Shariah.
Sheikh Iyad and Sheikh Ahmed? Lol… man, you have NO idea what you’re talking about, do you? You’re just tossing out names. Eyad is NOT a Sheikh, neither is Ahmed. I know them, I was friends with Eyad. Just because the guy is “well read” and publishes Islamic books, does not make him a Sheikh. I love Sidi Faraz, but with all due respect to him, he’s not an ‘Alim.
Sheikh Amjad spent the majority of his time in Yemen, distant from the Sheikh and the politics of Jordan. He isn’t familiar with what goes on there.
These guys praise Sheikh Nuh “immensely”… ya think?! Which murid wouldn’t praise their Sheikh? The minute they’re not praising, they’ve moved on.
And don’t assume that most of the names you mentioned don’t have any financial ties ins to the tariq. Some of them are stuck in it because of how much money they put in.
So Abu Layth, Umm Layth, and any other battle-cat out there… don’t assume you know what the Kharabsheh Cult is all about when you’re obviously totally clueless, floating around in that little bubble.
Sheikh Nuh doesn’t mind if all his murids left him? Yea, I remember that lesson, he said that when he was telling the women that they have to wear niqab around him. Have to! Anyone ever wonder why he was so adamant about it all of a sudden? Because his lovely wife, Umm Sahl, (who runs the show) flipped out about it one day.
As for him not caring if murids leave. About a year ago he had Hatim translate an article about the danger of murids that doubt their Sheikh and think for themselves. He’s telling his murids to submit their entirety to him, and put their intellects outside the door. Now if that isn’t cult logic, I don’t know what is.
See it for what it is guys. Just because a Sheikh has an ijaza in Irshad, doesn’t mean he won’t take off on a tangent one day and twist things around. I honestly don’t think Sheikh Nuh intended for things to end up this way, but he started to assume anyone on the outside wasn’t part of the Elite in God’s eyes, and when that happens, it’s all downhill from there. Sheikh Nuh is not flawless, his judgments are not necessarily Divine inspiration simply b/c he has an ijaza. He’s a religious man that has developed a following, sheep who are told not to think for themselves.
wa bilLahi el-Tawfeeq
@Sketch
Salams, do you mind answering my question that I addressed to you? Im not attacking; just curious about your views. Also, what is your opinion on the murid-shaikh literature, such as al-Anwar al-Qudusiya and other works? How do you reconcile what is contained in those books with what you are saying?
was salam
Allahu Akbar! Sketch, are you serious? You studied shari’ah for a whole ten years and you have degraded your sad state to contributing to stupid soap opera-like discussions regarding a fellow Muslim!? Masha’Allah! I can tell those 10 years did you an atoms weight of worth!
What is even worse is that your disgusting nafs thinks it has the ability to decrease the ranks of men who have higher rank than yourself. I can tell your sad nafs is out of control. Why don’t you and your ilk of ghibah & namimah loving disgruntled bigots bring forth names, dates, times, and further proofs instead of open ended, vague, statements that carry as much weight as Bush’s legitimacy. From what we see, you are a faasiq and it is not permitted for us to accept your statements as our Lord has said:
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
Prove to us your tawthiq, oh mughtaab! Bring forth your proof, as well as legitimacy for your claims. Tell us who you are, as well as the other slanderous backbiting scum with you. No worries, I am not close to Shaykh Nuh, and I am a horrible mureed, if a mureed at all - for the fact that I waste my time on such vomit only shows how horrible my own state is as well, so you have noting to fear, you obviously don’t fear Allah so you shouldn’t fear anyone else! Tell us how much money these mureeds I mentioned above have “invested” into this tariqah if you are truthful? Since you are the all-knowing mughtab, let us see your clear proofs! Or else, fear the du’aa of the oppressed, for you are oppressing your brother by spreading falsehood.
May Allah guide your pathetic nafs and mine as well Amin!
Also, mughtab Sketch, maybe you can bring us upon whose authority you know the intentions and reasons these men are part of the tariqah, and if it is true as you said: we also want an oath by Allah in person if you are truthful. If you can not bring forth proof, names, times, and dates, you are spreading tales, and since you - oh Noble Alim wannabe - have supposedly studied shari’ah for 10 years, you should know good and well the status of the one who carries tales without evidence!
@Abul Layth
But what about those women who are suffering and whose children are suffering due to divorces recommended by your shuyukh? Do you think your shaykh is incapable of making any mistakes? Give me an honest answer.
Oh please! Women suffering because the Shaykh told their husbands to divorce them? I believe that as much as I believe Yusuf Smith is a Vista lover!
Firstly, and this is very simple, bring forth names, dates, context of the divorce, and both sides of the stories. If such can not be given, and apparently those backbiting slanderers are to panzy to come forth, yet bold enough to sit behind computers and spread soap-opera like trash beneath some pseudo-name like “Sketch” or “Retardo” etc. , then the claims have no weight. Its that simple.
Secondly, if the Shaykh advised a mureed to divorce his wife, the mureed is not obliged to follow his opinion, why? because it is ADVICE, not a religious command divinely inspired. It is his opinion of the scenario, context etc. By the fact that they are on the net spreading their dirty laundry then attacking a man, whom they know will not defend himself, is proof enough that these women are shadier than their own qareens. The same goes for this backbiting ‘Alim wannabe Sketch. How sad is it for a supposed 10 year student of the law to not implement the law! They know very good and well that it is forbidden in the law of Allah to spread calumny, mention things without proof, and make claims unsupported without clarification of the context. Or maybe their 10 years of study was really 10 years of socialization, for that is certainly what they have shown.
Thirdly, mureeds are humans. They are not “saints”, that is why they are mureeds. They are trying to better themselves. You and I can not expect them to be monastic heroes, perfect, and angelic in their homes at all times. For Allah’s sake, they are humans! Get real people, seriously. Furthermore, the Shaykh can not be accountable for the actions of his mureeds. It is not his job to act like Stalin and enter the mureeds homes as he so pleases, then slap them around for their stupidity - if such even existed in these cases. What he can do is advise them to fix their problems as the Shari’ah has set out. I have personally heard Shaykh Nuh on multiple occassions warn against divorce and simply tell the mureeds, get over your nafs and move on. It really is that simple!
Fourthly, divorce is not Haraam, and at times may even be obligatory! For example, Allah says:
“A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness.”
[2:229]
So this stupid claim that divorce ruins lives and everything will come crashing down, is absurd! It is emotionality that has nothing to do with reality. Why aren’t these spouses trusting in Allah at all? My God! My mother raised three young lads on her own, making nearly nothing to the hour, not a single day did I hear her complain or say that “her life was ruined”. SHE WAS A CHRISTIAN, and ya Allah! How often did I hear her say “God provides, trust Him!”
Compare that to these backbiting slanderers who come on the internet, give only their side of the story, refuse to reveal the real details about the issues, and hound on a man that will not even defend himself against their baatil claims. Soap opera central! How pathetic! If they were real women, they would get their crap together and move on. But no, instead they have to follow their wiswas, lie, and spread their trash, knowing good and well that those mureeds in Kharabsheh do not waste their time checking a pseudo-salafi like Umar Lee’s blog. So of course these evil women and cohorts know they can get away with slander and backbiting. It runs through their veins like blood through man!
So cocomo, if you really believe these claims, then you have abandoned the Qur’anic standard wherein Allah states:
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
49:6
Have you verified? If you have give me names, dates, context, both sides of the story, as well as a statement from Shaykh Nuh on the issue. If not you have disregarded the verse for whim!
What kind of ridiculous question is that? Are you people really serious? Not only do you abandon Qur’anic standards for your desires, but you people assume purely irrational things!
Our Nabi said: “Every son of Adam sins, the best of those sinners are those who repent!”
What I know about Shaykh Nuh is that he is a scholar of tasawwuf, wise, kind, and determined to help people along their spiritual path to Allah. He does not seek personal gain from any of this da’wah effort of his, and he certainly doesn’t waste his time on pathetic soap opera styled baatil like this. Scholars who have met him praise him. Those who have true suhbah with him, love him. Its that simple. He is a sinner like all mankind, and he calls to tawbah like everyone else.
So get over your ridiculous baatil and realize that you will return to Allah be accountable for all of this non-sense. May Allah forgive us, because we need it!
was-Salam, Abul Layth
Oh please! Women suffering because the Shaykh told their husbands to divorce them? I believe that as much as I believe Yusuf Smith is a Vista lover!
Firstly, and this is very simple, bring forth names, dates, context of the divorce, and both sides of the stories. If such can not be given, and apparently those backbiting slanderers are to panzy to come forth, yet bold enough to sit behind computers and spread soap-opera like trash beneath some pseudo-name like “Sketch” or “Retardo” etc. , then the claims have no weight. Its that simple.
Secondly, if the Shaykh advised a mureed to divorce his wife, the mureed is not obliged to follow his opinion, why? because it is ADVICE, not a religious command divinely inspired. It is his opinion of the scenario, context etc. By the fact that they are on the net spreading their dirty laundry then attacking a man, whom they know will not defend himself, is proof enough that these women are shadier than their own qareens. The same goes for this backbiting ‘Alim wannabe Sketch. How sad is it for a supposed 10 year student of the law to not implement the law! They know very good and well that it is forbidden in the law of Allah to spread calumny, mention things without proof, and make claims unsupported without clarification of the context. Or maybe their 10 years of study was really 10 years of socialization, for that is certainly what they have shown.
Thirdly, mureeds are humans. They are not “saints”, that is why they are mureeds. They are trying to better themselves. You and I can not expect them to be monastic heroes, perfect, and angelic in their homes at all times. For Allah’s sake, they are humans! Get real people, seriously. Furthermore, the Shaykh can not be accountable for the actions of his mureeds. It is not his job to act like Stalin and enter the mureeds homes as he so pleases, then slap them around for their stupidity - if such even existed in these cases. What he can do is advise them to fix their problems as the Shari’ah has set out. I have personally heard Shaykh Nuh on multiple occassions warn against divorce and simply tell the mureeds, get over your nafs and move on. It really is that simple!
Fourthly, divorce is not Haraam, and at times may even be obligatory! For example, Allah says:
“A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness.”
[2:229]
So this stupid claim that divorce ruins lives and everything will come crashing down, is absurd! It is emotionality that has nothing to do with reality. Why aren’t these spouses trusting in Allah at all? My God! My mother raised three young lads on her own, making nearly nothing to the hour, not a single day did I hear her complain or say that “her life was ruined”. SHE WAS A CHRISTIAN, and ya Allah! How often did I hear her say “God provides, trust Him!”
Compare that to these backbiting slanderers who come on the internet, give only their side of the story, refuse to reveal the real details about the issues, and hound on a man that will not even defend himself against their baatil claims. Soap opera central! How pathetic! If they were real women, they would get their crap together and move on. But no, instead they have to follow their wiswas, lie, and spread their trash, knowing good and well that those mureeds in Kharabsheh do not waste their time checking a pseudo-salafi like Umar Lee’s blog. So of course these evil women and cohorts know they can get away with slander and backbiting. It runs through their veins like blood through man!
So cocomo, if you really believe these claims, then you have abandoned the Qur’anic standard wherein Allah states:
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
49:6
Have you verified? If you have give me names, dates, context, both sides of the story, as well as a statement from Shaykh Nuh on the issue. If not you have disregarded the verse for whim!
What kind of ridiculous question is that? Are you people really serious? Not only do you abandon Qur’anic standards for your desires, but you people assume purely irrational things!
Our Nabi said: “Every son of Adam sins, the best of those sinners are those who repent!”
What I know about Shaykh Nuh is that he is a scholar of tasawwuf, wise, kind, and determined to help people along their spiritual path to Allah. He does not seek personal gain from any of this da’wah effort of his, and he certainly doesn’t waste his time on pathetic soap opera styled baatil like this. Scholars who have met him praise him. Those who have true suhbah with him, love him. Its that simple. He is a sinner like all mankind, and he calls to tawbah like everyone else.
So get over your ridiculous baatil and realize that you will return to Allah be accountable for all of this non-sense. May Allah forgive us, because we need it!
was-Salam, Abul Layth
If youre really looking for answers about Nh Kellers group and his misguidance, dont write all these people off. ‘Salafis’ and others do not know the inside details that are listed in some of the comments here. Dont take Umm Layth or Abul Layth’s word either they have never been there and are just new hangers on and former salafi extremists.
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