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	<title>Comments on: Boo hoo! Anti-Muslim social engineering rules hit white couple</title>
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	<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple</link>
	<description>Politics, tech and media issues from a Muslim perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Thersites</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12517</link>
		<dc:creator>Thersites</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12517</guid>
		<description>&quot;The rules could have been made so as to require fluency in English, educational qualifications or some other requirement that cuts out the “marrying the cousin from the village back home” nonsense (not just forced marriages) while still allowing genuine couples of consenting adults to live in the UK.&quot;

There is nothing wrong with “marrying the cousin from the village back home”, or someone else&#039;s cousin  from someone else&#039;s village back home for that matter, and there is no reason why educational qualifications, lack of fluency in English or other factors should necessarily make someone unsuitable as a marriage partner. The problem comes when people are coerced into marriage against their will or judgment  and the younger they are the easier it is to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The rules could have been made so as to require fluency in English, educational qualifications or some other requirement that cuts out the “marrying the cousin from the village back home” nonsense (not just forced marriages) while still allowing genuine couples of consenting adults to live in the UK.&#8221;</p>

<p>There is nothing wrong with “marrying the cousin from the village back home”, or someone else&#8217;s cousin  from someone else&#8217;s village back home for that matter, and there is no reason why educational qualifications, lack of fluency in English or other factors should necessarily make someone unsuitable as a marriage partner. The problem comes when people are coerced into marriage against their will or judgment  and the younger they are the easier it is to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Aisha</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12513</link>
		<dc:creator>Aisha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12513</guid>
		<description>The issue of forced marriages is definitely a problem in many muslim communities, and it seems like we muslims ourselves are failing to do anything constructive to tackle this issue. Are we then in a position to suspect the laws being passed by the government?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue of forced marriages is definitely a problem in many muslim communities, and it seems like we muslims ourselves are failing to do anything constructive to tackle this issue. Are we then in a position to suspect the laws being passed by the government?</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12510</guid>
		<description>Salaam Tim &amp; Safiya,

The raised age for marriage visas came in after the FMA was introduced - it is a rule, not law.  However, I don&#039;t accept the explanation given that there had been pressure from the anti-immigration lobby to make this change for some time, particularly after Denmark did the same, also for social engineering purposes aimed at Muslims, and it had the same effects on &quot;innocent&quot; white couples.

I do accept that there is a need to prevent forced marriages, but I don&#039;t believe that these rules were necessary and neither did the victims of forced marriages that were surveyed before the rules were changed (as the report says).  The rules could have been made so as to require fluency in English, educational qualifications or some other requirement that cuts out the &quot;marrying the cousin from the village back home&quot; nonsense (not just forced marriages) while still allowing genuine couples of consenting adults to live in the UK.  Eighteen-year-olds are adults, let&#039;s face it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salaam Tim &#038; Safiya,</p>

<p>The raised age for marriage visas came in after the FMA was introduced - it is a rule, not law.  However, I don&#8217;t accept the explanation given that there had been pressure from the anti-immigration lobby to make this change for some time, particularly after Denmark did the same, also for social engineering purposes aimed at Muslims, and it had the same effects on &#8220;innocent&#8221; white couples.</p>

<p>I do accept that there is a need to prevent forced marriages, but I don&#8217;t believe that these rules were necessary and neither did the victims of forced marriages that were surveyed before the rules were changed (as the report says).  The rules could have been made so as to require fluency in English, educational qualifications or some other requirement that cuts out the &#8220;marrying the cousin from the village back home&#8221; nonsense (not just forced marriages) while still allowing genuine couples of consenting adults to live in the UK.  Eighteen-year-olds are adults, let&#8217;s face it.</p>
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		<title>By: Safiya Outlines</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12509</link>
		<dc:creator>Safiya Outlines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12509</guid>
		<description>Salaam Alaikum,

I&#039;ve got to agree with Tim here. Tragically, there are those in our community (and others) who seek to abuse the institution of marriage and these laws were aimed at preventing that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salaam Alaikum,</p>

<p>I&#8217;ve got to agree with Tim here. Tragically, there are those in our community (and others) who seek to abuse the institution of marriage and these laws were aimed at preventing that.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12508</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12508</guid>
		<description>Hmm, not sure about this. Forced marriage is a very real and significant problem effecting young Muslim, Hindu and Sikh citizens, both male and female. 

It was a major issues when I worked with a helpline serving the Muslim community a few years back. At that time Muslims were pushing for state intervention to curtail such marriages, which are both an abuse of the individuals&#039; rights and of our &lt;i&gt;deen&lt;/i&gt;&#039;s clear opposition to them. 

I&#039;m no expert on the matter, but it sounds a little flawed to say the laws are aimed at raising the marriage age of Muslims, since it is linked to a visa, not to permission to marry. But Allah knows best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, not sure about this. Forced marriage is a very real and significant problem effecting young Muslim, Hindu and Sikh citizens, both male and female. </p>

<p>It was a major issues when I worked with a helpline serving the Muslim community a few years back. At that time Muslims were pushing for state intervention to curtail such marriages, which are both an abuse of the individuals&#8217; rights and of our <i>deen</i>&#8217;s clear opposition to them. </p>

<p>I&#8217;m no expert on the matter, but it sounds a little flawed to say the laws are aimed at raising the marriage age of Muslims, since it is linked to a visa, not to permission to marry. But Allah knows best.</p>
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		<title>By: Thersites</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12507</link>
		<dc:creator>Thersites</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12507</guid>
		<description>&quot;They are a social engineering measure, intended to bring the age of marriage among Muslims more into line with the rest of society,... to lower the birth rates (a woman could have two in those three years) and to make sure that more of the spouses have degrees.&quot;
All of which help mean that the spouses (many of the men involved in forced marriages are not over-enthusiastic) are older, more mature, better educated and so more likely to resist family pressure to engage in a marriage made entirely for family convenience and to leave  a marriage- with fewer children- if it fails. Nor is it &quot;anti-muslim&quot;, while this custom is more common among Indian muslims, it is not unique to them. 

They may be inhumane and ineffective, but the &quot;no recourse&quot; laws are intended to stop people regarding marriage- any marriage, regardless of the suitability of the spouse- as a short-cut to the supposed cornucopia of a British passport. It is surely better to take measures to prevent forced or coerced marriages in the first place, rather than expecting the state to deal with the damage later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They are a social engineering measure, intended to bring the age of marriage among Muslims more into line with the rest of society,&#8230; to lower the birth rates (a woman could have two in those three years) and to make sure that more of the spouses have degrees.&#8221;
All of which help mean that the spouses (many of the men involved in forced marriages are not over-enthusiastic) are older, more mature, better educated and so more likely to resist family pressure to engage in a marriage made entirely for family convenience and to leave  a marriage- with fewer children- if it fails. Nor is it &#8220;anti-muslim&#8221;, while this custom is more common among Indian muslims, it is not unique to them. </p>

<p>They may be inhumane and ineffective, but the &#8220;no recourse&#8221; laws are intended to stop people regarding marriage- any marriage, regardless of the suitability of the spouse- as a short-cut to the supposed cornucopia of a British passport. It is surely better to take measures to prevent forced or coerced marriages in the first place, rather than expecting the state to deal with the damage later.</p>
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		<title>By: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12505</link>
		<dc:creator>George Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 06:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12505</guid>
		<description>Do you think there has been an intentional conspiracy by governments against the family, masterminded either by would-be totalitarians (seeking to increase dependence on the state), or by neo-Malthusians (seeking to reduce birth rates)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think there has been an intentional conspiracy by governments against the family, masterminded either by would-be totalitarians (seeking to increase dependence on the state), or by neo-Malthusians (seeking to reduce birth rates)?</p>
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		<title>By: LeedsLad</title>
		<link>http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12494</link>
		<dc:creator>LeedsLad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/07/23/boo_hoo_anti-muslim_social_engineering_rules_hit_white_couple#comment-12494</guid>
		<description>lol, I am watching this and thought of the same. Problem with these ppl is that they introduce such weird laws for people they consider weird, but they forget that it is the average man/woman who will be affected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol, I am watching this and thought of the same. Problem with these ppl is that they introduce such weird laws for people they consider weird, but they forget that it is the average man/woman who will be affected.</p>
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