Comments on: Control orders: try them or release them http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them Politics, tech and media issues from a Muslim perspective Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:32:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Codf1977 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14608 Codf1977 Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:27:27 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14608 You have somewhat missed the point, it would not matter if there is or is not currently any concept, you make one. But there is a concept of British by birth – if you visit the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia British Nationality Law</a> page and look at the section Acquisition of British citizenship it lists 5 ways you can become British : 1. ex soli: By birth in the United Kingdom to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the United Kingdom 2. lex sanguinis: By descent if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom). 3. By naturalisation 4. By registration 5. By adoption My concept of British by birth would cover the first two, so what I am saying is that anyone who falls into the last three categories and anyone who is not British should be subject to being asked to leave the UK and if they are unable or unwilling to go should be kept in a secure location until such time as they make the choice to leave the UK. You have somewhat missed the point, it would not matter if there is or is not currently any concept, you make one. But there is a concept of British by birth – if you visit the Wikipedia British Nationality Law page and look at the section Acquisition of British citizenship it lists 5 ways you can become British :

  1. ex soli: By birth in the United Kingdom to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the United Kingdom

  2. lex sanguinis: By descent if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom).

  3. By naturalisation

  4. By registration

  5. By adoption

My concept of British by birth would cover the first two, so what I am saying is that anyone who falls into the last three categories and anyone who is not British should be subject to being asked to leave the UK and if they are unable or unwilling to go should be kept in a secure location until such time as they make the choice to leave the UK.

]]> By: Thersites http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14601 Thersites Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:22:02 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14601 There is no concept of "British by birth" in English or Scottish law, nor is suspicion of unverified opinions which may lead to unspecified acts any reasonable basis on which to arrest or deport people. There is no concept of “British by birth” in English or Scottish law, nor is suspicion of unverified opinions which may lead to unspecified acts any reasonable basis on which to arrest or deport people.

]]> By: Codf1977 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14598 Codf1977 Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:52:57 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14598 Agreed, if you suspect smeone of something, try them or ask them to leave the UK. If they don't want to leave then detain them, they would be free to leave at any point as long as they left the UK. If they are British by birth then the only option is to try them - simplessss. Agreed, if you suspect smeone of something, try them or ask them to leave the UK. If they don’t want to leave then detain them, they would be free to leave at any point as long as they left the UK. If they are British by birth then the only option is to try them - simplessss.

]]> By: Thersites http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14595 Thersites Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:38:05 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14595 "I do think however there needs to be an exception to ECHR to allow the courts to expel a non-British born person; who the CPS can demonstrate is a possible threat to Britain, its allies or its interests. " "A possib;e threat"...well, that was precisely the situation before the judges' latest decision: if the intelligence services felt that someone moght be a "threat" for unspecified reasons which could not be examined in court they imposed control orders on them. “I do think however there needs to be an exception to ECHR to allow the courts to expel a non-British born person; who the CPS can demonstrate is a possible threat to Britain, its allies or its interests. “

“A possib;e threat”…well, that was precisely the situation before the judges’ latest decision: if the intelligence services felt that someone moght be a “threat” for unspecified reasons which could not be examined in court they imposed control orders on them.

]]> By: Codf1977 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14578 Codf1977 Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:30:02 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/09/08/control_orders_try_them_or_release_them#comment-14578 Unusually, this is a post you will see me agreeing with you in the most part. I do think however there needs to be an exception to ECHR to allow the courts to expel a non-British born person; who the CPS can demonstrate is a possible threat to Britain, it’s allies or it’s interests. At that point the "expelled" person would be held in custody until such time that the person nominates a destination they wish to be deported to. (the place would have to be willing to take them) Late me make it clear (least there be a confusion) if a person was born to British parents they are British and this would not apply to them. It would however apply to someone who has acquired British citizenship by any other means. Unusually, this is a post you will see me agreeing with you in the most part.

I do think however there needs to be an exception to ECHR to allow the courts to expel a non-British born person; who the CPS can demonstrate is a possible threat to Britain, it’s allies or it’s interests. At that point the “expelled” person would be held in custody until such time that the person nominates a destination they wish to be deported to. (the place would have to be willing to take them)

Late me make it clear (least there be a confusion) if a person was born to British parents they are British and this would not apply to them. It would however apply to someone who has acquired British citizenship by any other means.

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