Comments on: The Swiss minaret law and its implications http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications Politics, tech and media issues from a Muslim perspective Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:32:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Indigo Jo Blogs — The Spectator: where arrogant privilege meets bigotry http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19415 Indigo Jo Blogs — The Spectator: where arrogant privilege meets bigotry Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:13:52 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19415 [...] Liddle gets basic facts wrong. He claims that “57 per cent of Swiss people voted to ban the building of any more minarets in their country”. In fact, the true figure was 57% of those who voted, which was 53.4% of the population — that is to say, 30.44% of the population voted for the ban. There were two other proposals on the same ballot, and the turnout for one of the others (on banning all arms exports) was 53% according to Swissinfo (that could be a rounded-down figure, of course). It certainly reflects that there was a substantial core of support for it, but even if Liddle’s figure was accurate, it is still not a thumping majority. Whether such a vote reflects bigotry or not can be gauged by the kinds of arguments and imagery used to support it, which in the case of Switzerland included a lot of irrelevances and stereotypes. [...] […] Liddle gets basic facts wrong. He claims that “57 per cent of Swiss people voted to ban the building of any more minarets in their country”. In fact, the true figure was 57% of those who voted, which was 53.4% of the population — that is to say, 30.44% of the population voted for the ban. There were two other proposals on the same ballot, and the turnout for one of the others (on banning all arms exports) was 53% according to Swissinfo (that could be a rounded-down figure, of course). It certainly reflects that there was a substantial core of support for it, but even if Liddle’s figure was accurate, it is still not a thumping majority. Whether such a vote reflects bigotry or not can be gauged by the kinds of arguments and imagery used to support it, which in the case of Switzerland included a lot of irrelevances and stereotypes. […]

]]> By: *Sigh* « Ginny's Thoughts & Things http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19273 *Sigh* « Ginny's Thoughts & Things Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:11:01 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19273 [...] by Ginny on December 5, 2009 Am wondering why people are getting so offended about my and others’ comments, regarding not wanting to go to [...] […] by Ginny on December 5, 2009 Am wondering why people are getting so offended about my and others’ comments, regarding not wanting to go to […]

]]> By: Cncz http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19121 Cncz Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:51:06 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19121 Salams love this post. Just saw it because of Internet out at home. More once I have Internet more than on phone Salams love this post. Just saw it because of Internet out at home. More once I have Internet more than on phone

]]> By: Irony of life today http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19118 Irony of life today Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:00:38 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19118 “Discriminated against” maybe, but isn’t talk of Muslims being “persecuted” an exaggeration? .......no “Discriminated against” maybe, but isn’t talk of Muslims being “persecuted” an exaggeration?

…….no

]]> By: George Carty http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19117 George Carty Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:52:54 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19117 <i>People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe. </i> "Discriminated against" maybe, but isn't talk of Muslims being "persecuted" an exaggeration? Up until about a couple of hundred years ago or so Muslims weren't allowed to live in European countries at all! (Even the Ottoman ambassadors had to be Christians.) THAT's persecution... People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe. “Discriminated against” maybe, but isn’t talk of Muslims being “persecuted” an exaggeration?

Up until about a couple of hundred years ago or so Muslims weren’t allowed to live in European countries at all! (Even the Ottoman ambassadors had to be Christians.)

THAT’s persecution…

]]> By: Irony of life today http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19114 Irony of life today Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:50:15 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19114 was it "...pickled faced pickled brained.." that upset that poster.... ;-) was it

“…pickled faced pickled brained..”

that upset that poster….

;-)

]]> By: Old Pickler http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19112 Old Pickler Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:17:02 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19112 <i>People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe. </i> No they won't because they aren't. Persecuted? Because you can't have a minawwett? Didums. People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe.

No they won’t because they aren’t. Persecuted? Because you can’t have a minawwett? Didums.

]]> By: Irony of life today http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19111 Irony of life today Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:46:42 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19111 I was personally shocked and very depressed and saddened about this at first. After a bit of thought, I see it as a consistent pattern of the uncivilised European ugliness that we have seen many times before in history. The pattern is clear. Wars on Muslim countries, impending war on Iran, rampant Islamophobia, Muslim civilians in Israeli concentration camps, bans on minarets in Europe...it all sounds like a remix from the times of the earlier crusades. And here we have the premature talk of some posters to take up arms, but these are probably the same posters who have such a big chip on their shoulders and such a short fuse that they would probably be violent in any eventuality anyway. The point I would personally take from all this is that we should be watchful of the yet another uncivilised phase of European history unfold. And we should increase our prayers and use our faith to have unity and agreement between ourselves and act with strength and compassion. We have talk from some posters to go with the flow and build even better Mosques under the new uncivilised “building regulations” – these posters would probably tippex out their own ethnicity and identity to blend in; and one wonders what else they would be prepared to do to go with the flow. We still have talk about the rights and wrong of it all! The burka, the hijab, the Muslim school, the minaret...women’s rights, “macho” male Muslims, feminists, left wing fascists, BNP, pig faced Geert, pickled faced pickled brained Melanie, Mosques in Marseille and Germany....etc..etc! The confused melting pot of a list goes on and on and we still have those who talk about the logic of it all. The logic is clear – take a non-essential token in Islam, rip it to pieces and watch with glee. People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe. My advice to the people of Europe is that the reason Islam is being persecuted is in The Quran. Read it and if God allows, it will touch your heart and soul and you will know why. My thought is that the Minaret ban is just a small sign of big things to come. I hope that we Muslims are able to unite. One thing that urgently needs to stop is how American Muslims and European Muslims keep saying how its better over there or over here. It is not. Period. We are all the same colour to our Lord AND to our hosts. We are all Muslims in non-Muslim lands. I was personally shocked and very depressed and saddened about this at first. After a bit of thought, I see it as a consistent pattern of the uncivilised European ugliness that we have seen many times before in history. The pattern is clear. Wars on Muslim countries, impending war on Iran, rampant Islamophobia, Muslim civilians in Israeli concentration camps, bans on minarets in Europe…it all sounds like a remix from the times of the earlier crusades.
And here we have the premature talk of some posters to take up arms, but these are probably the same posters who have such a big chip on their shoulders and such a short fuse that they would probably be violent in any eventuality anyway. The point I would personally take from all this is that we should be watchful of the yet another uncivilised phase of European history unfold. And we should increase our prayers and use our faith to have unity and agreement between ourselves and act with strength and compassion. We have talk from some posters to go with the flow and build even better Mosques under the new uncivilised “building regulations” – these posters would probably tippex out their own ethnicity and identity to blend in; and one wonders what else they would be prepared to do to go with the flow. We still have talk about the rights and wrong of it all! The burka, the hijab, the Muslim school, the minaret…women’s rights, “macho” male Muslims, feminists, left wing fascists, BNP, pig faced Geert, pickled faced pickled brained Melanie, Mosques in Marseille and Germany….etc..etc! The confused melting pot of a list goes on and on and we still have those who talk about the logic of it all. The logic is clear – take a non-essential token in Islam, rip it to pieces and watch with glee. People in Europe will ask why followers of this faith, Islam are being persecuted in Europe. My advice to the people of Europe is that the reason Islam is being persecuted is in The Quran. Read it and if God allows, it will touch your heart and soul and you will know why. My thought is that the Minaret ban is just a small sign of big things to come. I hope that we Muslims are able to unite. One thing that urgently needs to stop is how American Muslims and European Muslims keep saying how its better over there or over here. It is not. Period. We are all the same colour to our Lord AND to our hosts. We are all Muslims in non-Muslim lands.

]]> By: Yakoub http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19109 Yakoub Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:12:12 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19109 I adore the little back-to-back house masjid in Huddersfield -- it's one of my face mosques, but a <i>Swiss Chalet style</i> masjid? Surely the stuff of nightmares! I adore the little back-to-back house masjid in Huddersfield — it’s one of my face mosques, but a Swiss Chalet style masjid? Surely the stuff of nightmares!

]]> By: Faatih http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19102 Faatih Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:07:20 +0000 http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2009/11/30/the_swiss_minaret_law_and_its_implications#comment-19102 When focusing on a topic like this which has caused heavy polarization it is only fair to examine both sides. I have read comments from non-Muslim Europeans and also naturally from Muslims being a Muslim myself. 1. Switzerland has not banned Islam or banned something which is a direct religious obligation or commandment for Muslims. 2. The Swiss government has been very apologetic about this whole affair realizing correctly the damage that it would cause to the landlocked mountainous country. 3. Yes, the support for the ban was motivated by ignorance, racism, prejudice and Islamophobia, there is no denying that. However what needs to be done now is to examine on what should be done. The Muslim community in Switzerland consist of a lot of people from the Balkans and Turkey, two regions where people view Islam as a culture-specific Islam. Turks are notorious for their hatred of Arabs and their desire to make "their" Islam, purely connected to being Turkish. Instead of attacking non-Muslim Europeans who by and large are fair-minded tolerant people we Muslims need to focus on self-reform and returning to our religion. I have a Danish non-Muslim friend who has a very positive opinion of Muslims, and I was very offended at the wholesale vilifcation of Denmark that took place by many during the cartoon scandal. The Muslim community in Switzerland needs to engage in constructive discussion and engagement with the host community in which it resides. By the way people shouldn't take this minaret mosque too personally as many people in Switzerland are known for their strong hostility to each other e.g. Swiss French v Swiss Germans. So hostility to another group is even less surprising. When focusing on a topic like this which has caused heavy polarization it is only fair to examine both sides. I have read comments from non-Muslim Europeans and also naturally from Muslims being a Muslim myself.

  1. Switzerland has not banned Islam or banned something which is a direct religious obligation or commandment for Muslims.

  2. The Swiss government has been very apologetic about this whole affair realizing correctly the damage that it would cause to the landlocked mountainous country.

  3. Yes, the support for the ban was motivated by ignorance, racism, prejudice and Islamophobia, there is no denying that.

However what needs to be done now is to examine on what should be done. The Muslim community in Switzerland consist of a lot of people from the Balkans and Turkey, two regions where people view Islam as a culture-specific Islam. Turks are notorious for their hatred of Arabs and their desire to make “their” Islam, purely connected to being Turkish. Instead of attacking non-Muslim Europeans who by and large are fair-minded tolerant people we Muslims need to focus on self-reform and returning to our religion. I have a Danish non-Muslim friend who has a very positive opinion of Muslims, and I was very offended at the wholesale vilifcation of Denmark that took place by many during the cartoon scandal.

The Muslim community in Switzerland needs to engage in constructive discussion and engagement with the host community in which it resides.

By the way people shouldn’t take this minaret mosque too personally as many people in Switzerland are known for their strong hostility to each other e.g. Swiss French v Swiss Germans. So hostility to another group is even less surprising.

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