Religion and cruelty

Today’s Observer carried an opinion piece by the co-author of a book called Does God Hate Women?, to be published by Continuum this week, which gives a brief list of the worst things religious people have done in the past century or so. (The book probably has quite a few more examples.) The article left me wondering how a respectable liberal Sunday broadsheet can print such a shoddy article containing such obvious generalisations and faulty logic, but then, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown’s ramblings a few weeks ago left me feeling the same way.

The opening paragraph sets the scene:

There is plenty to criticise in Islam’s view of women. Last year, the Observer told the story of a man in Basra who stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed to death his 17-year-old daughter for becoming infatuated with a British soldier. The relationship apparently amounted to a few conversations, but her father learnt she had been seen in public talking to the soldier. When the Observer talked to Abdel-Qader Ali two weeks later, he said: “Death was the least she deserved. I don’t regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion.”

Does anyone notice the leap? From the mention of “Islam’s view of women” to an example of an honour killing, which is forbidden in Islam and which goes on in some Muslim countries and not others, and which also goes on in non-Muslim regions such as India. Islam does not give men the right to kill relatives who “bring shame on them”, full stop. She is using the worst examples of the behaviour of some Muslims and using it as if it was typical.

Benson gives a few other examples of religious beastliness towards women, such as the anti-abortion law in Nicaragua and the Jewish seminaries in Jerusalem who tell women to stay out of their neighbourhood if they’re not properly covered. She then offers her opinion as to why religion remains popular with women:

So why is it so often women who fill the pews? Is it a form of Stockholm syndrome? Religions do a good job of training people to be obedient and loyal to the authorities and women in particular are raised to be both devout and submissive. Religions are sticky: they are hard to abandon and that is doubly true for women, given that subordination and unshakable fidelity are their chief duties.

The fact that women are defined as different from men (“complementary” is the religious euphemism) and confined to narrower, more monotonous lives as a result, means that they have more need of the excitements and passions of religion. For women, religion often is the heart of a heartless world. All they have to give up in exchange is their right to shape their own lives; as long as they behave themselves, all will go swimmingly.

I can think of more obvious reasons why women are more likely to be devout: because they are likely to be older (as women tend to live longer than men), or because they want to give the children a religious upbringing, perhaps for the moral values, perhaps for the educational advantage being part of a church community brings in some places, even though neither parent feels inclined to practise for its own sake. The older women often have outlived the need to be obedient or submissive to anyone; they may well be the most senior person in the family, and may also have had plenty of people, particularly children, obeying and submitting to them during their lives. Benson also conveniently overlooks the fact that many women simply do not want to work, at least not full time, and that life in many places is difficult and dangerous for everyone and not just women. If religion is only there to provide excitement and passion in a heartless existence, it is likely to fulfil that role for men as well.

Benson then brings the Irish child abuse scandal in, quoting the testimony of one female veteran of a notorious Irish industrial school regarding children screaming endlessly for years. It is ironic that she uses this particular scandal as evidence of religion’s bias against women, as boys were brutalised as well, and took the brunt of the sexual abuse which went on. The belief was not the problem: the problem was a society which turned in on itself after gaining independence from a United Kingdom which was hostile to Catholics, in which the Church dominated by celibates gained too much power.

However, cruelty is a general part of the human condition, and plenty of institutions have dealt it out, some of them not specifically religious and many anti-religious. The many crimes of the Chinese communists, both under Mao and after, and of communists in Russia and elsewhere, are an obvious example, as are the eugenic policies pursued in northern Europe and the USA during the 20th century, which were in fact opposed in the Catholic world. It is foolish to assume that child abuse or the oppression of women or other forms of cruelty will go away, for women or children, or indeed anyone, when religion fades in any given community.

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  • http://www.quranclub.blogspot.com Ikram Hadi

    Typical misrepresentation of Islam. The media would promote anything that is bad for Islam.

  • Umm Zein

    assalamu alaikum - although I agree with most of your article I wanted to mention something about honour killings. Since Islam’s true stance on this is apparently not common knowledge among Muslims living in Muslim-majority countries, maybe we shouldn’t expect any better from non-Muslims? The Irish priests haven’t so far come out and said that the abuse they carried out is actually justified in Christianity. That’s the difference. Can we really expect non-Muslims to search through scripture in order to refute what Muslims themselves are actually saying? (Perhaps yes in the case of the author of this book, but not among the general readership of papers and books). Unfortunately, although you may say that honour killings are rare, whenever the subject comes up I find (I am speaking of actual conversations I have had) that too many Muslims will excuse these killings even when it’s pointed out that they are forbidden in Islam. That is more of a problem than the eagerness of non-Muslims to think the worst of Islam.

  • http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/ Indigo Jo

    As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,

    Umm Zein: They were priests, not ordinary Catholics. These were ignorant ordinary people. The woman who wrote this article is an academic writing in a serious newspaper, not any Tom, Dick or Harry or their female equivalent talking to another of the same kind in a pub. This kind of ignorance has to be taken seriously when peddled by people who ought to know better, or ought to have done a bit of basic research.

  • LeedsLad

    “honour killing” is an evolusion of Female Infanticide which was normally practiced in those areas before Islam. The old traditions found other excuses to carryout the ugly past. You never hear anything happening to the guy, it is always the girls/women. If I had beef, I would rather go after the male than the girl whom I invested so much time, hopes, energy etc.

    I honestly don’t want to waste time on those sick ppl, how do such bonking lot get to write a book in the first place?

  • Thersites

    “However, cruelty is a general part of the human condition, and plenty of institutions have dealt it out, some of them not specifically religious and many anti-religious.” Certainly. However, religions like christianity and islam with their gleeful anticipation of most of the human species undergoing torture beyond human imagination for eternity while the “saved” have the pleasure of watching it probably exacerbate the human tendency to cruelty.

  • http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/ Indigo Jo

    Thersites: hardly relevant when the victims in both cases were of the same religion as the perpetrators. In any case, neither religion actually teaches believers to be safe in the knowledge that they are saved.

  • Thersites

    Very relevant when a taste for cruelty is divinely authorised and encouraged and the known alternative to comparatively mild human cruelty is an eternity of unimaginable cruelty. The first encourage cruelty as a pleasure; the second justifies it as a comparatively humane duty. Most believers are pretty sure they are saved, which they use to justify their own behaviour. Those who aren’t so convinced often suffer- and sometimes inflict- horrible agonies in this life, whatever they may undergo after death.

  • s.ali

    Theresites there is a difference between punishment and cruelty right?

  • http://www.drmaxtor.blogspot.com DrM

    This is the typical brain dead atheist in action. There is no shortage of “honor crimes and killings” are carried out in the West by not-so-religious types. So whats their excuse?

  • Thersites

    “Theresites there is a difference between punishment and cruelty right?”

    Not always, Ally. People can get the pleasure of cruelty and the pleasure of morality at one and the same time.

  • s.ali

    sure. Not always. But your 1st reference to ‘eternal cruelty’ is irrelevent as in that case it is punishment not cruelty.

  • Thersites

    So if someone is tortured as punishment it isn’t cruelty? What do you think the purpose of punishment is? What do you think the purpose of punishment should be?

  • s.ali

    Theresites consider the following example:

    Random person: “Hey did you hear what that Fritzel guy did to his daughter? Unimaginable cruelty.”

    Theresites: “Sure, but hey, have you heard what some religions believe about Hell? Thats what I call cruel.”

    Random person: “Huh?”

    Relevance?

  • Thersites

    What Fritzl did to his children was obviously not unimaginable, Sally. The quran says that the pains of hell are unimaginable. Are you suggesting the quran is inaccurate?

    So if someone is tortured as punishment it isn’t cruelty? What do you think the purpose of punishment is? What do you think the purpose of punishment should be?

  • s.ali

    Actually the descriptions of Hell are quite detailed at times, whereas paradise, although description is given is unimaginable.

    The purpose of punishment can vary. In a human sense it could be retribution, a deterrent or perhaps retaliation at times. It can also be for purification or to make one think about their actions and learn from their mistakes.

    Btw - gleeful anticipation? Example please!

  • s.ali

    By the way rape particularly for a virgin is unimaginable.

  • Thersites

    “Actually the descriptions of Hell are quite detailed at times, whereas paradise, although description is given is unimaginable.”

    We are told that the pain suffered in hell is beyond human imagining. Every detail of the pains of hell given is said to be less than the pains will be. Part of the description of paradise consists of the fact that the people in paradise will watch the damned being tortured. It’s one of the few very specific pleasures of paradise depicted in the quran.

    “The purpose of punishment can vary. In a human sense it could be retribution, a deterrent or perhaps retaliation at times. It can also be for purification or to make one think about their actions and learn from their mistakes.” If the punishment consists of tortures far worse than humans can imagine, are never going to end and are carried out after the “criminal” is dead and will never again need to be deterred from committing their “crimes” or learn not to commit them how can it serve any of these purposes but retaliation or retribution? The very fact that the punishment is going to be worse than humans can imagine and worse than any pain humans can inflict and is never going to end means that it out of all proportion for either of these purposes.

    “Gleeful anticipation”- read the bits of the quran that explain how few people will avoid hell and what will be done to them there.

    “By the way rape particularly for a virgin is unimaginable.” It is perfectly imaginable. If it were unimaginable it would never happen because no-one would imagine it or do it.

  • s.ali

    Theresite: the fact that something happens does not make it imaginable for all. Nonetheless this is not a discussion on imagination.

    You Theresites asked me what Punishment is and its purpose. I answered from me, in a human worldly sense.

    As for the hereafter yes it will be eternal punishment (it’s purpose being punishment) for some and temporary for others (serving the purpose for purification).

    It - the punishment of the hereafter - also acts as a deterrent in this world for those who believe and acknowledge a divine Creator.

    However the word cruelty does not come into it as one of the attributes of the Creator is that He is Al Adl, the Just.

    The bottom line is that you and I will disagree on this simply because I believe that God created us with a purpose and you, I’m assuming do not.

    Your description of gleeful anticipation is innacurate.

    Your original comment to Yusuf still stands as irrelevant, cruelty exists in non religious people too and the existance of eternal punishment after death does not encourage those who believe nor authorise them to usurp anybody’s rights or inflict cruelty in this world. If anything it should act as a deterrent.

  • Thersites

    “Nonetheless this is not a discussion on imagination.” Then why did you keep raising the topic of what is or is not imaginable, Sally?

    “You Theresites asked me what Punishment is and its purpose. I answered from me, in a human worldly sense.” We were specifically discussing the punishments allegedly imposed in hell however so it was another attempt to evade the matter.

    “As for the hereafter yes it will be eternal punishment (it’s purpose being punishment)” Punishment in the form of the infliction of pain worse than humans can imagine- torture- which the saved will watch from heaven and enjoy watching.

    “It - the punishment of the hereafter - also acts as a deterrent in this world for those who believe and acknowledge a divine Creator.” It also encourages them to behave more badly to those who they think commit “crimes” deserving that punishment.

    “However the word cruelty does not come into it as one of the attributes of the Creator is that He is Al Adl, the Just.” Self-attributed. A being that is going to torture people for ever with pain beyond human imagination purely as punishment for alleged “crimes” is cruel and unjust because there is no proportion between the “crime” an its punishment. The question of whether the attribute “the just” is justly attributed does come into it. In turn, this raises the question of whether any of the other attributes god allegedly attributes to himself are justified.

    ” I believe that God created us with a purpose” And for most of the human species that purpose is to be tortured for ever for committing “crimes” that god intended them to commit before he made them.

    “Your description of gleeful anticipation is innacurate.” Why? We are told that muslims should look forward eagerly to the pleasures of heaven. One of those pleasures will be watching the damned being tortured. Either believers look forward to it with pleasure and they are gleeful or they do not look forward to it with pleasure- in which case, are they actually believers? What will happen after they die to people who do not gleefully anticipate watching the damned being tortured after they die?

    “Your original comment to Yusuf still stands as irrelevant, cruelty exists in non religious people too and the existance of eternal punishment after death does not encourage those who believe nor authorise them to usurp anybody’s rights or inflict cruelty [? I assume you mean punishment] in this world.” Except I did not say cruelty does not exist in nonreligious people. I said that the cruelty inherent in christianity and islam probably exacerbates the human tendency to cruelty and that it will make people who believe those religions more likely to act cruelly because they believe they have the right and duty to do so as punishment and deterrent.

    “If anything it should act as a deterrent.” Except that it distinguishes between the wrong kind of cruelty and the infliction of punishment on behalf of god on those who disobey god and- they are told and believe- deserve to suffer torture worse than humans can imagine in the next world. Believers are likely to get their deterrence in in this world, either as discouragement of future sin or as a foretaste or future punishment. That, of course, is separate from the effects of the formal prescription of torture as a punishment for various “crimes” in the quran and hadith.

  • Old Pickler

    Communism is an atheist creed - and that’s about as cruel as it gets.

  • George Carty

    I would be more inclined to cite Social Darwinism as an example of a cruel secular creed (not atheist - as the Victorians embraced it while still professing Christianity - but not dependent on religion).

    The cruelty of Communist regimes is in my view contingent on the rise of Stalin (or someone similar, who uses intrigue to gain absolute power), rather than a feature of the ideology itself.

  • Thersites

    “Communism is an atheist creed - and that’s about as cruel as it gets.” As you say, O.P., a creed- a set of beliefs about human history and the purpose of humans- like islam or christianity with comparable attitudes to enemies of the true belief.

    “The cruelty of Communist regimes is in my view contingent on the rise of Stalin (or someone similar, who uses intrigue to gain absolute power), rather than a feature of the ideology itself.” Perhaps the rise of someone like Stalin- or the production of leaders such as Stalin- was- as Stalin would put it- an historically inevitable product of the ideology itself.